croquet - closed for open "business" ?

Gary McGovern zeppy at australia.edu
Sat Feb 14 15:36:53 UTC 2004


Thanks Jecel,
I know that I was complaining about broken components and complaining about
not having broken components. I suppose I expect Squeak to much more
developed. But it shows something else needs to be developed so that flawed
stuff is rejected from the image.

Then on the other hand it is hard to spend the time on getting croquet
going while I'm studying a module on relational databases and another
module on C++,when I already know some of the parts are missing from what
is explained in the documentation for setting up Croquet.

And I can be fickle....

And I couldn't say how much you helped because I've not read many of your
mails and no papers. I've read very little about how Croquet came about and
what the sources are. (Except I've messed about with some of Takeos Teddy
and other applets). 

Talking about Takeo making applets, are there other researchers like him
that make Java applets because all of the components work ?

I'm all for a 3d system. But I'm also interested in a text only hypertext
system, a 3d/2d hypermedia system. If I'd had the chance to use Croquet
maybe I could have seen something else. 

I'll just wait. I don't want to stir the hive up too much :) I was in
passionate mood yesterday. Today I'm mild. I formally resign from this
thread  :) I understand what Dave and Andreas are saying. 

Take care
Thanks
Gary
P.S. Your web page was down when I checked
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www.lsi.usp.br 
Sat 14 Feb 2004 12:26:25 PM BRST 
Apache 

 

>On Friday 13 February 2004 14:41, you wrote:
>> I don't agree with you Jecel,
>
>Oh, that wasn't my opinion but my guess about the possible motivations 
>of the Croquet group. Personally, I would be glad to have Croquet, 
>Scratch and other fun Squeak projects developed in a more open fashion.
>
>In fact, I have made a special effort to release any code or information 
>in my projects as soon as I have them myself (except for stuff owned by 
>others which won't be released at all).
>
>Others prefer to work in secret and surprise us with the final product. 
>Or are just afraid that work will halt and they will have to deal with 
>"it complains about xzio.h not found in my system, please help" all day 
>long. Check out the early 2003 part of the Croquet list if you don't 
>think that could be a serious problem.
>
>Anyway, we actually agree but the opinions that matter are those of the 
>OpenCroquet group.
>
>> I've already helped with Croquet,
>> before it was made 2 years ago. As I said "viewpoints".
>
>I doubt they read my 1991 paper about 3D GUIs  
>(http://www.lsi.usp.br/~jecel/jpaper8.html), so I can hardly claim the 
>same.
>
>> And I stand
>> by having working components;) Do you not like to have working
>> components? ;) Perhaps the people want to read that kind of email.
>
>I just thought it funny that in one email you were complaining (and 
>understandably so) about unfinished projects being released and in 
>another about unfinished projects not being released.
>
>Not only were incomplete experiments left "floating around" inside the 
>official image, but also changes made things that used to work break. 
>That was the cost of rapid development. But the focus since Squeak 3.4 
>has been on cleaning up and fixing instead of radical new advances. 
>There are lots of things that nobody is currently using, so if you find 
>stuff that doesn't work please report it so that it can be either fixed 
>or thrown away as the case may be. A quick scan through this list for 
>emails with BFAV subject tags in them shows that people do want to read 
>that kind of email.
>
>-- Jecel
>






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