update stream policy

Ned Konz ned at squeakland.org
Sun Jan 18 20:43:30 UTC 2004

On Sunday 18 January 2004 10:08 am, ducasse wrote:

> What people are doing with Squeak if they do not program. Ok may etoy.
> but look at the recent question about insert:before:
> A person reported a bug, it was archived, reviewed, then closed because
> simply the protocol was not clear. Imagine tests as documentation.
> With that documentation we would limit problem like that. For me
> when we will have a kernel with nothing and only load script then sure 
> tests should be packaged
> now we do not have that. and we are spending time on that.

> For example,  
> some approved items
> are pending because they contain tests. So does it mean that marcus or 
> I should spend
> ***OUR*** time separating tests and code then publish a new 
> package....Is it what you imply?

No. I think I was careful to make the distinction between the *alpha* images 
and the *released* images. I think the next *released* image might be 
packaged differently than it is now (more modular), and with the SM2 ability 
to have local caches, it may make sense to distribute the tests *with* the 
image (i.e. alongside, in the SM2 local cache), instead of *in* the image. 
That way, they're available at the touch of a button but don't get duplicated 
as in-image artifacts every time you save an image (unless they get loaded).

But this is a packaging decision that has yet to be made.

As far as I'm concerned, I think it makes sense to have tests available in the 
alpha images, since it makes it easier to submit and test fixes and 
enhancements. Which (I think) is also what you're saying.

> If this is the case do count on me. As you noticed I pay attention that 
> what you are doing get reviewed really fast

That's an interesting observation. I went to the BFAV archive to see if that 
was so, and it seems that many of my [ENH] posts do get reviewed reasonably 

The two attached GIFs each show two curves representing how long it takes for 
other people to respond to original FIX or ENH posts from you (blue) and me 
They show the cumulative percentage vs. time in days.

As you see, about 44% of my ENH posts and about 30% of my FIX posts get 
responded to (not necessarily reviewed!) within a week.

Our ENH curves cross at three weeks, with about 48% being responded to by 
then. Past that time, the response to your posts increases fast.

After 2 months, 71% of your ENH posts and only 52% of my posts have been 
responded to.

The FIX curves intersect much earlier. At 2 days, 27% of your FIX posts and 
23% of mine have been responded to. After a month, 76% of yours and 50% of 
mine have had responses.

So I hope you weren't comparing my review rate with yours.

> but my time is not extensible and I'm not payed for that nor gain money 
> out of it.

Sadly, my time is not extensible either. I wish it were!

And the bulk of the time I spend on Squeak (fixes, helping people on the list, 
and most enhancements) is unpaid.

> If people prefer that we spend time on separating tests and publishing 
> them on remote servers
> and update web page and url instaed of harvesting new stuff say it 
> clearly. But in that case you will
> have to find another harvester.

I'm not saying that.

I appreciate your harvesting work, as I hope the rest of the Squeak community 


> >
> > I do think that it may make sense to have tests available in alpha 
> > images
> > because (presumably) most of the users of alpha images will be 
> > programmers.
> >
> > SM2 will allow annotation streams for packages; these can (and should) 
> > contain
> > resources like tests, as well as updates to the packages and tests
> > themselves.
> >
> > And bug reports, and user experiences, and ...
> >
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