Marcus,

Marcus Denker wrote:
> Am 15.09.2004 um 16:32 schrieb stéphane ducasse:
> 
> 
>>>For those in need of stability: Maybe one idea would be if those 
>>>could step forward and just *do* the 3.8 release.
>>>That is, get the harvested stuff in, harvest some more, declare a 
>>>beta, coordinate the beta and gamma phase,
>>>help with the full image... the only reason why 3.7 took so long was 
>>>that everybody involved does not
>>>care if the release is done today or next week, because they don't 
>>>need it.
>>
>>Indeed I have the same feeling here ;)
>>Let us see if some stable guys will show up :)
>>
> 
> 
> Yes. And in general, I think for me I can say that for 3.8 and 3.9 i 
> will most certainly not be able to put as many
> time into harvesting than I did for 3.7.
> 
> Involvement of more people into getting stuff into the next releases 
> will be IMHO realy critical.
> I hope that the new ideas for 3.8a harvesting will be successful. It is 
> *realy* *realy* important to get that working.
> 
> And if nobody helps,  we should take that as a community vote for just 
> stopping any further development.

I'm seeing some frustration here: that's bad!


Just some thoughts from my POV.
I've stopped working with Squeak for a while and just recently started
again with the DepS stuff (which has made much work and will make much
more work).

But also for me - having used Squeak quiet a lot - it is very difficult
to grasp the current state of all the
- new tools: SM, MC, SAR, BFAV, OB;
- repositories: SqueakSource, SqueakMap-Server (this is a repository!),
update stream stable, update stream unstable;
- new or changed processes: bugs, harvesting, KCP (what is this? (OK, I
have to RTFM...));
- concepts: Extensions, namespaces (kicked, but probably coming again in
a while).
Probably I've missed many things here...

In additon, some time ago I've gotten an email saying
"We invite you to re-examine these submissions and re-submit any of them
you believe are still appropriate and should be addressed.";
meaning to post all my tons (79, to be exactly) of [BUG], [FIX], [ENH],
[ANN], or [GOODIE] again, which are not obsolete (after checking this,
of course).

I'm really overwhelmed!


So in my spare time I'm following the ML and just try to work further at
the DepS stuff. Moreover I'm ignoring much of the stuff above as long as
possible. Otherwise there wouldn't be a chance for me to get results
regarding the DepS stuff in some mid time range.

I think, I'm not the only one feeling and acting this way!

If I'd have a company using Squeak for making money and enough money, I
would pay one developer just for working with and improving the
processes to get Squeak more stable, including to ease the participation
of *all* developers at these processes.
But I don't own such a company, have to work for money (currently this
means to seek for a job) and want to do interesting new stuff in Squeak...


Probably we are faced with some crisis, but a crisis also is a chance
for improvement...

> 
> Lots of people would be happy with that, I think. No strange people any 
> more who want  something else than
> Smalltalk 80, no need to put so many work into porting your realy 
> important project over to that strange 3.6 or 3.7
> that didn't have any important changes anyway...

The answer cannot be to stop improving Squeak IMHO. But what is the answer?


Marcus, I hope you sometimes have some feelings of success, too...


Greetings
Stephan

> 
>         Marcus
> 
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> 
> 
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> 

-- 
Stephan Rudlof (sr at evolgo.de)
   "Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis.
    You can't simply say, 'Today I will be brilliant.'"
    -- Kirk, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3