Andreas Raab wrote:

> Different groups have different styles of work and we (the VM 
> maintainers) have long adopted a style which does not assume that HEAD 
> is always the latest stable version but rather provide explicit file 
> releases. The main reasons being that there is no conceptual 
> difference between checking out HEAD or using a stable file release 
> and to allow us to move forward so that we know the order in which 
> pending changes get integrated. This is in particular important since 
> the main ports have maintainers with very different schedules and 
> requiring everyone to get in sync before allowing to make a change to 
> the trunk would probably deadlock the entire group.

That's what branches are for, right?

>> file: Squeak-3.7-7.src.tar.gz (I assume) is "the" last known good 
>> stable source.
>
> I would suggest that we need agreement from those who know that
>
> I would suggest that you take the discussion to VM-dev if you want any 
> resolution.
>
>> Then, we need to find the other platform vm sources to create the 
>> stable trunk (I need these eventually, too)
>
>
> Win32: http://squeak.hpl.hp.com/win32/release/Squeak-Win32-3.7.1-src.zip
>
>> It might be that the current trunk is pretty close already. I don't 
>> know.
>
>
> For Windows, no. I still haven't gotten around to update the VM 
> sources to 3.8 - in other words if we would follow your proposed model 
> the trunk would be stuck at 3.7 which I would find an extremely 
> unpleasant situation.

Exactly, the trunk would be the stable version. I guess I don't see why 
it's better to have the bleeding edge in the trunk.

If it sounds messy because of all the different platforms, maybe the 
released should be located one more dir below for each platform. Or, 
separate trunks for each platform. At least the source would be in one 
place.

But, ok. I can live with anything.. just as long as I know what 
procedure to follow.

> The only reliable form to get a guarantueed version of the VM is (and 
> has always been, back to '96) to get a file release (tar ball) 
> containing everything that has been used to build the VM you are 
> using. The versions change, mind you and having HEAD apply to 
> whatever-the-latest doesn't help you one bit if you don't use 
> whatever-the-latest. With file releases you get *exactly* everything 
> the maintainer has been using for the VM you are using and you even 
> know when a maintainer hasn't done whatever-the-latest; such as the 
> absence of a 3.8 Windows VM. Put differently, if you ever have a 
> problem with the 3.2.1 Windows VM you go grab 
> http://squeak.hpl.hp.com/win32/release/Squeak-Win32-3.2.1-src.zip and 
> get *exactly* the sources that have been used for the VM you are 
> running, period. AFAIK, Ian has generally been following the same policy.

ok

>
> Also, the set of maintainers has been working together in some form or 
> other for almost ten years now and you should at least consider the 
> possibility that there are reasons for why things are the way they are. 

Oh, I do. I just question it, that's all.

> They work for us. And If you think we're all morons who don't know 
> Jack you are of course free to set up an alternative repository and 
> show the superiority of your ways. We'll discuss the results in 2015 ;-)

I understand and respect that they've been working together for a long 
time. I'm indebted to their invaluable contributions. I just want to be 
able to obtain those contributions and build it in a reasonable way. 
And, I didn't mean to imply that the maintainers are morons.

Poking around, I see that there are indeed branches and tags, but they 
seem a bit backward to me. There is a 3.7 branch for unix at:
http://squeak.hpl.hp.com/svn/squeak/branches/unix-3.7-7/.  Would this be 
the released 3.7 for unix?

There are several places in the swiki that states to go to the trunk for 
the sources. In one place, it does say "the latest sources". So, you got 
me there. Ok, how about we clean up the swiki, so that it indicates 
where to get the stable or released sources... to save headaches for the 
next bloke.

Poking around some more, I see that there is a page that indicates where 
to get the win sources.  To me, it seems a bit backwards to have people 
go to different places for sources. Isn't it a goal for squeak to 
maintain consistency among all platforms? It's not possible completely, 
of course, but that's the goal.  So, it seems a waste (to me, no offense 
intended) to not use SVN to it's full potential.

Ok, I'll leave this ml and post in the vm ml as you've suggested.

Thanks for your help,

brad