Avi Bryant <avi.bryant at gmail.com> wrote:
> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 02:00:30 +0100
> From: Avi Bryant <avi.bryant at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [REPORT] Report 1 from castaways (that name sucks...)
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
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> 
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:40:36 -0400, Lex Spoon <lex at cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
> > Cees de Groot <cg at cdegroot.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:49:23 -0400, Lex Spoon <lex at cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Additionally, the UI abstraction task is fine but seems relatively
> > > > unimportant compared to these other items.  How muh code, really, is
> > > > going to find it useful to target 5 different UI's?
> > >
> > > Ehh... mostly all of the development tools?
> > 
> > As you know, those already work in all the UI's.  Thus a UI abstraction
> > does not help them; it only pretties them up.  Pretty code is nice but
> > should not be on the top of this priority list.
> 
> I guess it depends on what you mean by "all the development tools". 
> One concrete outcome of ToolBuilder so far is that the Monticello UI
> suddenly works (or mostly works) in MVC and Tweak, which it didn't
> before.  And I'm pretty sure that not all of the browsers had been
> ported to Tweak yet, or the TestRunner, and now they suddenly work
> too.  And very few of these currently work in Seaside, but ToolBuilder
> will make it easier for all of them to.  And then there's wxSqueak. 
> So you say "those already work in all the UIs", but you actually mean
> something like "the System Browsers and Debugger already work in both
> Morphic and MVC", which is a much, much weaker statement.


Granted -- I spoke sloppily, in response to a sloppy dismissal.
The point is that there is no crisis with development tools, and thus
that the dismissal was a red herring.  The real issue, as Cees and you
both go on to talk about, is dependencies from UI-neutral code to
particular UI frameworks.

-Lex