Hi all! (cheerful today)

"Ron Teitelbaum" <Ron at USMedRec.com> wrote:
> Stef,
> 
> I agree.  It seems to me that Java is Smalltalk strongly typed and with a
> business model to attract corporations and Server Vendors.  There is a model
> which allows private companies to make money offering small changes to a
> standard reference model and charge large consulting fees. 

A few reactions from my heart :) :

I wouldn't say Java is like Smalltalk "strongly typed" nor even
"statically typed" which would be the better term. As Cees said the
differences are too many to list. :) Though compiling such a list is
probably a worthwhile effort. I am doing another presentation on Squeak
and I intend to include such a list in there, so if anyone has a list of
their own, you could email it to me and we could eventually put it on
www.squeak.org.

I am sick of Java. People seem to be impressed with the hype surrounding
Java, but really - is *that* what *we* want!? I sure don't. The politics
surrounding the JSRs etc with companies trying to turn things their way,
the braindead standard libraries that evidently noone dare to touch
(note on that below), the featuritis creeping into the language turning
it into a mess (just read this:
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/arnold/archive/2005/06/generics_consid_1.ht
ml) just because it "sells", the whole mentality around complexity (the
worshipping of it) in the java community, the fact that you can't really
as an individual developer affect Java etc etc. And yes, I have worked
extensively in the darn language. ;)

IMHO (not speaking of the SqF board here) I want to build a robust
prosperous Squeak platform and community BUT not at the expense of our
"cozy" and diverse community, our agility to adapt and change, the fact
that you as a single developer can have an effect on Squeak, and our
faithfulness to do "the right thing". All these things matter *highly*
to me, and probably to most Squeakers.

This means I don't want to create "another Java" and trying to get a lot
of company buy-in and money poured into it. I am much more interested in
carefully crafting a better and better platform and slowly attracting
more and more competent developers that understand the nature of both
Squeak *and* our community and the values we share.

I don't want us/Squeak to turn into something else just in order to
attract "them" (feel free to replace "them" with "the masses" or "big
companies"), instead we want them to understand us/Squeak and join. :)

Now, regarding change and the braindead libraries (just see Date and
friends, String or Collections in general) in Java - one thing that I
value in Squeak is that we try to move forward. Until now we haven't
really changed "Smalltalk-80" much, definitely not the language itself
(Traits is the first change really) and the base libraries have also not
been radically modified.

But I sense a shift in this matter - we are gradually changing our
mindset and I think we will start seeing progress in these parts too.
And yes, it will mean the backwards compatibility will suffer - but
frankly, I rather see Squeak moving forward and a clear "directive" with
each release explaining what major differences you need to be aware of
in order to migrate your code forward (this has been missing earlier).

And each release in itself should be more robust, that is something we
need to improve. Perhaps trying to produce more post release fixes and
of course, more tests and tons of other changes in how we work
(Stewarding for one).

[SNIP]
> Money and development make sense; there should be a plan to go after real
> corporate support and money here in the US.  We need a business plan.

Ehm... Well... :) I personally don't see this as very high up on the
priority list - but if people want to engage in it, then I will not
stand in the way - unless it ends up risking the values we all share of
course. :)

> I believe that smalltalk is extremely powerful, and terrifically fun!  The
> foundation is the right way to go.  What better project is there?

I think we are moving in the right direction. Fast enough? Not sure, we
are almost all using our free time so speed will always be slow.

regards, Göran