On 5 oct. 05, at 02:16, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:

> Stef,
>
> I agree.  It seems to me that Java is Smalltalk strongly typed and  
> with a
> business model to attract corporations and Server Vendors.  There  
> is a model
> which allows private companies to make money offering small changes  
> to a
> standard reference model and charge large consulting fees.  It's an
> interesting model that attracted a lot of money and hype.  They are  
> also
> requiring companies certify their servers.  They are charging money  
> to do
> it, and then they can say Java Certified.  It's an interesting  
> model, but it
> requires someone to do the work of certification and testing (not  
> to mention
> the liability for doing it wrong).
>
> There is a lot of good will money out there too from corporations.   
> Is sqf a
> register non-profit in the US?

No because nobody was commited to make it happen that way and none of us
is a US citizen.

> If it is then there are some problems that
> we would have to be very careful of.  Mostly the foundation can not  
> benefit
> any private entity.   Otherwise you could loose your non-profit  
> status and
> encounter major fines.  For example, if Oracle gave you a bunch of  
> money and
> we all set out to build the oracle dll support and maybe  
> incorporate their
> business objects, we would be in big trouble.
>
> Money and development make sense; there should be a plan to go  
> after real
> corporate support and money here in the US.  We need a business plan.
>
> I believe that smalltalk is extremely powerful, and terrifically  
> fun!  The
> foundation is the right way to go.  What better project is there?
>
> (I'm not trying to lecture or make it sound difficult, it's just a
> suggestion.  I wish I had more time but I'm working on building a new
> company.  So I'll try to stay lurking, until I can offer something  
> more
> concrete)
>
> Ron
>
> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it!"

me too this is from alan :)

> <- I really like that
> Stef.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of  
> stéphane
> ducasse
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:52 PM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: [Newbee] Salutations
>
>
>>
>>
>>> The foundation needs very experienced business people, some
>>> promotions and education focused to encourage corporate
>>> acceptance, and a solid and growing user community producing a
>>> strong capable business development platform.  We all know that
>>> smalltalk is just as capable (if not more) but the business world,
>>> and it’s consultants like Gartner Group, sees us as risky.
>>>
>>>
>> yes, I'd really like to see (more) common actions of people using
>> Squeak professionally (its certainly good to become a supporting
>> company at SqueakFoundation but if we also manage to do real
>> actions, that is even better!). There are certainly a couple of
>> companies that mainly do Squeak development - I guess, most in the
>> Seaside area. I'm sure that all Squeakers can profit if we manage
>> to attract more business users. I mean, for example Monticello was
>> implemented because it was just not reasonable anymore to manage
>> source code with change sets in a project with more than two
>> developers.
>>
>> There are many areas where Squeak could be enhanced to be more
>> powerful as a business platform: for example development tools
>> (with Shout, eCompletion and others we already made a big step
>> forward), core libraries (e.g., the implementation of collections
>> is very bad in respect to performance if they are big enough),
>> persistency (e.g., we use OmniBase but run into corruption problems
>> (probably related to the VM). If OmniBase was more used under
>> "real" conditions, new users would have more security that it works
>> reliably) etc. etc. There are certainly many more possibilities and
>> needs...
>>
>> How can we best push the "professionalization" and attraction of
>> new users? I agree with Ron that SqueakFoundation would provide a
>> good structure - its goals definitely are about this already. What
>> I think is crucial and for now missing are committed people taking
>> action and helping to push!
>>
>
> We need two things:
>      - people willing to take initiative
>      - money
>
> Our goal is really to be able to pay people to fix problems. Now we
> do not know exactly how we can do it so that
> it does not damage the community. But we will find a solution.
>
> Stef
>
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