Hi Tim -

Tim Rowledge wrote:
> I wouldn't hold VMMaker up as any paragon of package virtue right  now. 
> Bugger all has been done for ages;  are there even plausibly  recent VMs 
> for windows and *nix?  I'm still awaiting any sort of  response to a 
> large number of questions about future stuff and  current fixes. 
> Frankly, if nobody starts to show some actual interest  in being 
> involved I'll drop the whole frigging thing.

Well, my point still stands - any well-maintained package doesn't have a 
harvesting problem (or perhaps it is the other way around? ;-) Whether 
VMMaker specifically has a harvesting problem or not is a somewhat 
different issue. Unless you disagree with the basic premise this isn't 
invalidating my point.

Besides I will point out that you would have had a thing or two to say 
if anyone would just have posted their private VMMaker version as the 
newest one, wouldn't you?

> And as for complaining about people messing with Chess code - well  did 
> _you_ show any signs of ownership or care? Did you fix bugs,  bring up 
> to date etc? Yes, I'm sure you're busy but who isn't? Why  would you 
> expect anyone else to put in effort to maintain packages  when you don't?

Okay, just for the fun of it I'll bite: Which bug in the chess game 
*didn't* I fix? Name a single one and I'll concede the point. Really, I 
dare you: Show me *one* bug that I didn't fix but that any of these 
changes addressed and I'll concede the point. Fact is, none of the 
changes have been addressing a bug, have been bringing anything 
up-to-date. All of these were were done under the banner of some cleanup 
crusade, done by people who clearly did not understand the code and did 
mechanical changes. Changes that I strongly disapprove of - not because 
I like shitty code but because they left matters in a worse state than 
they started out with: Less consistent, less robust, less understandable 
and slower to boot.

And to get back to my original point (because we're drifting off here), 
if you do that my code, I'll just stop caring at some point and give up. 
And I think the same is true for you, Tim. And for pretty much anyone 
else who takes pride in his or her code.

Remember, my point here is about code ownership. I'm trying to make the 
point that the way in which the harvesting process works is broken 
because it actively destroys a sense of ownership which we need if we 
want people to take responsibility. The chess game is just an example in 
this regard, but a good one because it has all the right (e.g., wrong) 
things been done to it.

Cheers,
   - Andreas