There were several informal squeak demo's just after the Croquet talk
for those Smalltalkers that hung around, there were only about 15 or so
of us.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On 
> Behalf Of Alexandre Bergel
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:28 AM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: Smalltalk at oopsla
> 
> Smalltalk has revealed to be an important programming 
> language. This means that the Smalltalk communities is doing well.
> However, we (and especially I) could have done much better. 
> For instance, there were no demo of Squeak or Seaside. Which 
> would have really been a positive move.
> 
> Regards,
> Alexandre
> 
> 
> On Oct 20, 2005, at 6:58 PM, Alejandro F. Reimondo wrote:
> 
> 
> > Hi Alexandre,
> > Thank you for the comments on OOPSLA.
> >
> >
> >
> >> like: "Eclipse tries to achieve something that Smalltalk 
> did 20 years 
> >> ago, and remains still behind". The room was completely 
> full at that 
> >> time.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Most people on Java side see Object Orientation as a path to Object 
> > Technology.
> > Under this point of view, pointing to Smalltalk guaranties 
> reaching  
> > the target some day in an hypothetical future.
> > One of the "side effects" of this pov is that smalltalkers 
> with weak  
> > education try to reduce/formalize/force Smalltalk to be 
> defined  as an 
> > object "oriented" language.
> > On both sides of the path people is working on building a 
> bridge  and 
> > wasting time and efforts.
> >
> > Comments on projections from OO to OT reminds me the 
> comments on Java 
> > programming that can be read on Tim's web site at 
> > http://www.rowledge.org/tim/squeak/index.html
> >
> > And also make me remember a company trying to building a bridge to 
> > Smalltalk for Java people and wasting money given by Smalltalk 
> > customers...
> >
> > We have a lot of evidence that show that singular elements 
> present in 
> > any Smalltalk Ambience and it's modes of non-formal use are 
> not simple 
> > projections of formal methods (reduction to objects).
> >
> > IMHO we must try to reflect on this elements and activities 
> that let 
> > us build organisms (and not only draw architectures) and 
> reinforce the 
> > underlying technology to make real/independent advances in O.T.
> > I think that advances in O.T. do not implies better multimedia  nor 
> > easy/innocent use of Smalltalk ambiences.
> >
> > The direction of real advance, imo, is in non-formal activities and 
> > education that can be realized using Smalltalk as a medium for 
> > Education in Ambience.
> > With this objectives I have founded Smalltalking ( 
> > http://www.smalltalking.net ) some years ago, and have 
> found that it 
> > is very difficult to make a real advance in O.T. because people 
> > continuously are trying to see "the bridge"
> > and think that all can be reduced to objects and the only 
> they can do 
> > is to assemble machines and formalize/draw architectures.
> >
> > Informatics as a concecuence of computation and consumption...
> > Objects as products of formalizations.
> >
> > All people doing the same that is demonstrated that produce  
> > unmanageable results and "side effects".
> > We have in Smalltalk the support for education on open systems.
> >  e.g. to make activities that complement formal design and 
> reduce  the 
> > application of formal method/prediction to well known pieces.
> >
> > We have (in Smalltalking) documentation on this approach and  
> > experiences collected on real ambients and some in 
> Smalltalk  but most 
> > of the material is written in Spanish.
> > Today is difficult to find people with real interests in 
> non-formal  
> > activities and education.
> > Smalltalk has a real value as a support for information  
> processes and 
> > EA.
> >
> > best,
> > Ale.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alexandre Bergel" <bergel at iam.unibe.ch>
> > To: "Squeak List" <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>;
> > <esug-list at lists.esug.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:52 PM
> > Subject: Smalltalk at oopsla
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Today is the last day of oopsla. It was a really cool 
> surprise to see 
> >> how many times Smalltalk was cited during talks and how many 
> >> compliments it obtained. Here some particular moment I enjoyed:
> >>      - Before the keynote of Mary Beth, James Noble said something
> >> like: "Eclipse tries to achieve something that Smalltalk 
> did 20 years 
> >> ago, and remains still behind". The room was completely 
> full at that 
> >> time.
> >>      - The room where the Croquet workshop hold was 
> completely full, 
> >> even if the organization was a bit shaky (please, do not 
> take it bad 
> >> :-), this was really cool! The room was completely full, 
> and it did 
> >> not contains only smalltalkers, but also people who were 
> just curious 
> >> and wanted to learn more.
> >>      - David Reed gave a talk on Croquet, and the room was really 
> >> big, and was completely full.
> >>      - Roel Wuyts was chair of the Symposium on Dynamic Languages.
> >> And again, the room was too small to contain all the attendees :-) 
> >> Especially for the very last talk given by Brian Foote; 
> the doors had 
> >> to left open in order to make people standing  outside able to 
> >> listen.
> >>      - Martin McClure organized a Squeak BOF. That was really cool.
> >> Again, some people came here just to learn more about squeak/ 
> >> smalltalk.
> >>
> >> I was also delighted to see that some technical 
> presentations in the 
> >> research tracks shown DrScheme into action. Kathryn did a 
> demo using 
> >> DrScheme, and it was really cool!
> >>
> >> Also, I felt that Smalltalk had more attention than Ruby and other 
> >> Python. This oopsla was a wonderful opportunity to meet people in 
> >> real.
> >>
> >> Keep going Smalltalkers! We have cool things to show, and 
> we have to 
> >> show them!
> >> I would like to give big hands to Roel and Martin to have 
> organized 
> >> their events.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Alexandre
> >> --
> >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> >> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel 
> >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~bergel 
> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>