[ANN] Squeak Foundation
ducasse at iam.unibe.ch
Mon Sep 12 15:09:54 UTC 2005
> Some comments:
> First of all, I'm glad you're getting this off the ground. I like
> the goals and such.
> But then I have one big basic question. You need to make a decision.
> The site sends me two conflicting messages of what the foundation
> wants to be.
> 1. An organization to help the people around you that contribute to
> Squeak do so more effectively. This would be a good thing, and it
> seems well organized for that. You, Noury and Marcus have worked
> together quite a bit, and have the ability and focus to do more
> with some money from the community.
> 2. An organization meant to represent the wide Squeak community.
> This is supported by the wide base of the "Wises" and mainly by the
> goals and principles, which are quite general.
I do not really see that as a problem. We can be concrete, not pissed
other projects and still be concrete with Squeak future.
What you should know is that we did not want to show that we were
taking the power but one the other hand
we were totally frustrated to see nothing happening.
> So I think either decision is good news for the community, but you
> do need to decide because:
> If you intend to be somehow representative of the Squeak community
> (this is what I hope), you have to be open and actually
This is what we planed to do by having in the wise one member of each
> 1. it needs to be clear what the criteria/process is for people to
> get into the various lists. Currently, I have no idea how the
> "wises", "core" lists were decided.
Our point is that we do not want that people just talking get the
same power than the ones actually doing the work. This does not mean
that we do not want to listen but this means that we should DO
something else than writing emails. Also in terms of credibility
(contribution to the community not only in terms of code but also PR
and any other services).
Originally we collected a list of people that we did not want to
frustrated an contacted them to talk about the sqf.
Then it occurred not so many people were really concerned about it.
At the end of the process we obtained a voting mechanism.
Which is already something.
> A vote? (and by who?) people.SqF.org masters? just everyone you
> thought of off the top of your head?
Originally the wises+core would vote one certain topics. But I was
doing nothing for 6 months just as a test and ....
guess what: nothing nothing happened this means that lot of people do
not care or do not have time or...but the result is the same.
> 2. it needs to be clear what the relations are between the
> different groups. How is the exclusive sounding "wises" different
> from the ambigously explained mailing list?
The mailing-list reaches the wise and the core (normally)
> ("by invitation", but "if you think we forgot you we probably did",
> and "we need commited people, not mailing list members").
The problem is that the old Squeakfoundation was just a list of
people (often having nothing to do with Squeak just there doing nothing)
and we do not want that again. So the core list of people is open but
not to everybody because we have to work and push forward.
I think that soon we should do a big GC :) but for now we should
- have a CD, DVD
- have merchandising
- get stuff rolling
Now if you want to join and organize it our are welcome.
> 3. You have to make the decision who is in and who isn't actually
> be in the hands of the community.
I do not understand what you mean.
> 4. Same goes for the decision power - what projects get funded, for
> example, needs to be controlled by either the funders or the
> community at large.
For the moment the decision power this is me and marcus and goran.
Because we have to start moving,
and because I do not have the impression that the wise are interested
(which is ok too). We have a voting process
so we can just issue a vote and if we get 2/3 then this is accepted.
> 5. The server setup should be similar to the sqf.org site - several
> maintainers, distributed in time zones, and widely contributable
> (though not necessarily open wikis).
I do not see why.
> If you don't intend to be representative of the community, that's
> perfectly ok. To take an example, I' very glad squeak-ev exists,
> and I have nothing to say about what its structure is. However, in
> this case, please don't call yourself the "Squeak Foundation".
We want to represent the community but not be the slave of it. For
example, for the inclusion of the tests in the image, if you remember
one guy was shouting that the tests should be separated and me and
marcus were LOSING OUR time on that and this is not possible.
People do not have the power to decide what we should do of our time.
> After you've made this decision, and I know what this new
> foundation is, I'll probably go ahead and buy some merchendise and
> become a supporter either way, because I believe in the people and
> care about the goals, but currently you haven't clearly stated what
> you want it to be.
Yes I agree but if I will not have done it, NOBODY out there would
have done it.
So if you want to participate to set up an organizational process you
are welcome. I do not have the time.
> And what that decision is will determine my level of involvement.
> stéphane ducasse wrote:
>> Hi all
>> Since a year, we (marcus and me and some others) have been
>> playing with the
>> idea that Squeak deserves a foundation and after several tries,
>> we decided to doit!
>> Have a look at: http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/squeakfoundation
>> Now we are nearly ready for the prime time. We hope that you will
>> it and support it. Read the actions: http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/
>> squeakfoundation/actions/ and the goals and principles: http://
>> In a nutshell we want to make sure that we get an organization
>> that pushes the visibility of Squeak
>> and that enables Squeak to be a platform of development for all
>> kinds of applications (educations,
>> multimedia, web developments, research), but also support the
>> production of books, videos...
>> We want to make sure that Squeak continues to be maintained even
>> if we stop. We want to be able to
>> pay a cleaner a day a week to support the harvesting and bug
>> fixing. Squeak needs to have more users and
>> companies selling products with it, because the more we will be
>> the more we will be to fix and enhance
>> the system.
>> Now this is not a private club, if you want to REALLY help, you
>> are more then welcome, we have a lot to do
>> CD, DVD, merchandising, website, projects... But pay attention
>> that we are looking for people not only talking :).
>> Now if you like the idea but you do not have the time but trust
>> us for all the good job we did over the years
>> then support the foundation, read the http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/
>> squeakfoundation/supporters/ page.
>> To speed up the bootstrap we asked ESUG to host it and also to
>> sponsor it. They accepted
>> and gave us some money to start (2000 Euros) and noury the ESUG
>> treasurer accepted to
>> have separate accounts and deal with the money issue.
>> Stef, marcus, noury, and few others...
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