Again, I agree.

Cheers,

Alan

----------

At 02:54 AM 4/22/2006, Hans N Beck wrote:
>Hi Stef,
>
>now is much more clear, thanks :-) So my 2 cents:
>
>I think it is right that content is the important part. Content
>understood as knowledge elements (to teach) and their didactics.
>But it would not break "us" (the squeakers) to make content, if
>someone "out there" rethink about the same tools. Perhaps there are
>coming new insights about the tools from this kind of reeingeering ?
>I would have more trouble if a quarter of all squeakers now go to
>Python ;-)
>
>
>Regards
>
>Hans
>
>Am 22.04.2006 um 10:34 schrieb stéphane ducasse:
>
>>What hilaire and me said is that pushing the idea that python
>>people should reimplement squeak and etoys
>>is not really cool for our community, let us face it! The point was
>>not to push your own language and fight for that, just to show
>>the good aspects you have. So it was surprising and boring after a
>>while to hear Alan systematically saying that they should redo
>>everything in Python. I feel that this is counter productive and
>>this is also why I say that if their goal is to teach maths to kids
>>then they should focus on the contents not on the technology, so if
>>I would have the same goal I would build a set of cool tools:
>>Kara, BostInc, Logo, Etoys, Karel, DrScheme, Python... and
>>encourage the building of contents and not to focus on
>>a technology.
>>
>>I strongly believe that the effort we are doing to tighen up Squeak
>>will help people to build new environment and new environments for
>>kids too. For example the Pier logo wiki is a clear example of that.
>>The work that Craig is doing can be the foundation for a really
>>tiny core on top of which we could build a complete new set
>>of worlds, Sophie and Tweak are also really sexy and we should find
>>a way to integrate that (I'm really for helping moving
>>Tweak when it is ready into Squeak if Tweakers want that).
>>
>>Then hearing argument that python is the way to go because they are
>>mainstream was fun (because you can always use an argument only
>>when it is ok to apply it to you), because C or Java are much more
>>mainstream.
>>
>>Now there are a lot of cool material already existing in Scheme for
>>example (Structure and interpretation of computer program, how to
>>design program to name a few with the excellent DrScheme
>>environment). Now of course you can reimplement everything in your
>>own cool language because this is the only one that is important
>>and mainstream.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Stef,
>>>
>>>just for understanding - you and Alan want to say that
>>>
>>>- everyone which is interested is welcomed for giving new ideas
>>>how to make education, regardless of his favoured system/language
>>>- the implementation is not important - if someone want to use
>>>python, to bring in his ideas he should do so
>>>- reinventing or reengineering always gives the chance to think
>>>once more about it - from a new point of view. Nothing is really
>>>ready.
>>>
>>>
>>>Something like this ?
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>Hans
>>>
>>>Am 22.04.2006 um 09:14 schrieb stéphane ducasse:
>>>
>>>>If you think about it the sad part is not really there.
>>>>I do not believe that teaching etoy, logo, botsinc really help
>>>>kids learning maths as with a teacher: They have fun, they are
>>>>emerged into maths, they are not afraid which is already a lot.
>>>>Instead of investing in language people should invest
>>>>in contents: the right exercise to teach the right concepts.
>>>>Right now what you see (even if etoy) is that they are really few
>>>>good material. I translated the book of Kim and some french
>>>>teachers were happy and then asked the killing question: the
>>>>start was fun so what where is the contents?
>>>>Besides driving a car....(i pointed them to the graph basket ball
>>>>thingies but this is not enough).
>>>>So if Ubuntu people think that they can substitute the writing
>>>>and development of a math curriculum, with
>>>>a "come with me play stuff" developed in any language, this means
>>>>that this is a view of programmer (bold of course and full of
>>>>enthousiasm) and I wish them success, because I think that the
>>>>contents in any format is more important.
>>>>
>>>>May living and being surrounded by teachers biaised my view of
>>>>the world...
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>