Smalltalk: Requiem or Resurgence? Push for business application support

Ron Teitelbaum Ron at
Tue May 16 12:51:07 UTC 2006

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Muller
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 5:46 PM
>  I must admit, I've never understood why some are so concerned with native
> look and feel anyway.  Why is it such a big deal if the drop-shadow on my
> buttons appears lower-left instead of lower-right (this is a made up
> example, is there a better one)?  If Microsoft does it in their new
> version of Windows, THEN its ok.  It suddenly becomes (gong please) "the
> new standard" that we all must "conform" to.  Please..  The only way to
> break this cycle of following is to break it.
>  Frankly, I also wonder about those who feel "blocked" by Squeaks "weird"
> look and feel.  It's basically the same as anything else as far as I can
> tell.  You have lists, buttons, scroll-bars, text editors, etc.  

My issue is one of operation and windows.  If the mouse moving means we
loose focus and users can not use a form heads down, or if the UI doesn't
support multiple windows, much is lost.  I think that supporting frameworks
for widgets like wxWidgets is a good idea.  Integration of wxSqueak anyone?

A second issue is one of usability and business support.  We have had a
number of people including myself trying to read and write files without
understanding CrLfFileStream.  This is really an issue for me.  I suggested
that we need to have a way to do aStringOrCollection writeToFile: aFile or
aStringOrCollection readFromFile: aFile that should just work without having
to know the ins and outs of the streams or any particular platform.  The
response I got from the community was this is a language not an application
and since we can support what needs to be done developers need to understand
the tools.  If this is the case then we need a business squeak that supports
applications not just tools, we need more support for processes and business
protocols.  EDI, ASN.1, Cryptography, Workflow, Reporting, Bluetooth,
personally I would like to see support for X12, HL7, NCPDP...  We should
have preBuilt applications that can be used or modified that can solve real
world business problems.  We should be encouraging web hosts to offer
Seaside and provide applications that run on it.  Why is .net and python and
perl and php so successful?  Well when I can go and install an application
to use without knowing anything about the language it encourages me to want
to know more and to learn to develop or modify packages.  Besides
downloading and installing a finished application is also a good way to
learn what a finished application looks like.

We should have openSource applications for Squeak and we should consider
adding code that makes Squeak easier to use for business applications.

Just some thoughts!  (I was trying to stay out of this thread)

Happy Coding!!

Ron Teitelbaum

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