A Lisper asks, "Am I supposed to like Smalltalk?"
lattam at mac.com
Wed May 17 16:31:17 UTC 2006
You are correct. I was not trying to say they are wrong for wanting things
they way they are used to. I was instead trying to encourage them to step
out of those habits a bit more.
I work all day on Java code in Eclipse so I am quite used to that method of
working. What I find is that the methods get longer and less modular
because there is just this long linear presentation. I also find that most
of the time I am looking for something specific and the organization
presented in the Smalltalk browser is superior for getting from point A to
point B. I hate tree controls because they never show enough. Once you
expand the children of an item all its peers scroll off the screen. On the
project I work with the number of packages and classes and methods is large
enough that linear browsing/navigation is impractical. So I find the quick
ability to go to definitions/references (implementers/senders) to be far
more useful. I also find that having multiple open windows lets me see as
many things at once as I like, where the Eclipse system lets me only see one
file and one region of that file at a time, unless I spawn an entire window
with all the heavy border widgets and such. My work style is also probably
affected by having a large monitor to spread things out on (30").
From: squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Viktor
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 2:02 AM
To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
Subject: Re: A Lisper asks, "Am I supposed to like Smalltalk?"
although i personally like the smalltalk browser style much better, i
think we shouldn't just tell 'the others' "our approach is better, so
you have to use it" ...with all the "anything is possible with
smalltalk" talk on the other hand. we sure have a lot of ways to
represent all the methods for a class in a single editable stream (chunk
format?), so why not? some people will just feel more comfortable that
Michael Latta wrote:
> While keeping your hands on the keyboard should in theory be more
> I have found that the presentation/treatment of methods as separate units
> work has more benefit than cost. Having all the source in one long
> scrolling text area (as in Java or C#) results in a very different coding
> style and organization that is not as productive (at least for all those I
> know have used both environments at the master level).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Chris
> Patrick Schreiner
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:40 PM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: A Lisper asks, "Am I supposed to like Smalltalk?"
>>First of all is the environment/IDE. With Lisp/Emacs/Slime, or for
>>that matter Java/Netbeans, to write method after method, you can
>>just type. What I saw in Squeak was a bad combination of mousing
>>and typing. You have to click in the '--all--' window of methods,
>>then mouse down to the editing pane, and replace text, then save,
>>then do it again for the next method. I'm sure this is a YMMV
>>thing, but these mini-interruptions sure wouldn't keep me in 'flow'
>>as much as just typing.
> I totally agree with this though
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