Juan,

No, specifically I am not volunteering, I am voicing my opinion against
removing EToys at all if the result is further fragmentation of our
communities.  

My opinion concerns the politics that is currently Squeak and not a
technical assessment.  If a good case can be made for removing Etoys besides
let the SqueakLand image move along the road by itself since they will never
upgrade, then I would be interested in hearing that argument.  Otherwise I
would prefer to leave it in.  

I see a benefit in leaving a bridge, however tenuous, between the
communities.  I see a benefit in having Etoys even if it is an older version
in squeak to help facilitate learning and experimentation.  I would love to
see a Squeak that can run Croquet, Tweak, Etoys, Sophie, and Seaside and I
will do anything I can right now to keep these communities together.   

Ron Teitelbaum




> -----Original Message-----
> From: jvuletich at dc.uba.ar
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:46 PM
> 
> Ron, Marcus,
> 
> I guess you're volunteering for this to happen?
> 
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
> >
> > On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:29 PM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
> >
> >> Any chance we could instead make EToys removable, but leave it in
> >> the base
> >> image so that if, in the future, Squeakland or Tweak would like to
> >> resync
> >> with squeak that will still be possible?  I don't like the idea of
> >> hard
> >> coding community fragmentation.
> >>
> >> Ron Teitelbaum
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Markus
> >
> >>
> >>> From: jvuletich at dc.uba.ar
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:59 AM
> >>>
> >>> Hi Milan,
> >>>
> >>> It is hard to say, but it is a huge effort. May be in the 1000 hours
> >>> range. May be much more than that. I don't think it's worth doing.
> >>>
> >>> For eToying, I'd use the Squeakland release, or may be 3.8 or 3.9.
> >>> Or the
> >>> new Tweak based, when available.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Juan Vuletich
> >>>
> >>>> Juan,
> >>>>
> >>>> Once eToys are removed (and as you suggested perhaps 20-30 hours
> >>>> work),
> >>> do
> >>>> you
> >>>> think it is reasonbly possible to have them loadable again? I am not
> >>>> asking
> >>>> you to do the "reload" piece of work, rather asking about your
> >>>> feeling
> >>>> about
> >>>> whether reloadability is possible, and what number of hours would
> >>>> you
> >>>> estimate to make eToys loadable (if such question even makes
> >>>> sense :) -
> >>> in
> >>>> very rough number, 10, 100, 1000 hours sort of thing). The reason
> >>>> I am
> >>>> asking, and perhaps there are others in this camp, is that for my
> >>> personal
> >>>> playing with squeak I mostly play with eToys, and would have to
> >>>> either
> >>>> help
> >>>> the reloading effort (which I will, but my abilities cannot
> >>>> guarantee
> >>>> much :) ) or switch to squeakland image. In any case, work towards a
> >>> small
> >>>> well-defined "squeak core" (with hopefully loadable packages)  makes
> >>>> sense.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks Milan
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2006 October 18 06:10, Juan Vuletich wrote:
> >>>>> So, this seems a good time to remove eToys from the official
> >>>>> release. I
> >>>>> can team with Pavel and Stef (and any other volunteer) to do this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, it will take some 20 or 30 hours of work, and I think
> >>>>> we need
> >>>>> to know if this will be adopted, otherwise I won't spend time on
> >>>>> it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I guess the Board could lead, and make a decision, or enlight me
> >>>>> about
> >>>>> the decision process for issues like this one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Juan Vuletich
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marcus Denker wrote:
> >>>>>> The SqueakLand people don't use 3.9, and I am quite sure they
> >>>>>> never
> >>>>> will.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Etoys 1 is past live-cycle. There is 3.8/OLPC which is a cool
> >>>>>> Etoys
> >>>>>> image for eToys1.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For the future, there needs to be a new eToys2 that is
> >>>>>> maintainable.
> >>>>>> There is a very cool demo of a next-gen eToys based on Tweak.
> >>>>>> That seems, to me, much more the thing to take a look at for the
> >>>>> future
> >>>>>> eToy system.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>        Marcus
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
>