Brad,

I want to "perpetuate" vertical apps because my users need them and
therefore I need to create them.  Communicating between them can be as
simple as using sockets.  Given that I have apps (vertical or otherwise)
on geographically separated machines, that's pretty much a wash anyway. 
BTW, I get more than prototyping: I get the ability to
profile/refactor/iterate until I have something that frequently
out-performs a mainstream effort, and I get an OO system that can "tell
me where it hurts" any time an error occurs.  That's a lot of bang for
the user's buck.

In summary, I want to use Smalltalk, and like it or not, I will run on
top of things like Windows, Mac OS or Linux for a long time to come. 
The question is whether or not Squeak is a candidate development
platform.

We seem to agree (to put it mildly<g>) about the level of cleanup that
should occur in moving to 3.10.  That's a start.

Bill



Brad Fuller brad at bradfuller.com
Sun Feb 4 02:09:16 UTC 2007

> I continue to think the community is really missing the point on a few
> fundamental topics.  Some think the only route to success is to get
> developers to use Squeak to churn out native-widget apps for end
users;
> others fire back with things like there should be no OS, no difference
> between users and developers, and other idealistic beliefs.  All are
> bickering, to the detriment of Squeak.

Gee... I haven't seen any bickering. I think the arguments have been 
fruitful and interesting.

> 
> Our goal should be to collaborate on making both approaches, and
others,
> possible! 

Why would one want to continue to perpetuate the development of vertical

applications - of which it is difficult to communicate between (except 
w/o even more vertical methods of communicating)? I see only one 
advantage of developing OS-native apps in Squeak and that's Smalltalk's 
prototyping ability. A capability that you can also get with other 
languages. Unfortunately, the user misses the true power of the 
Smalltalk environment.

<text removed>

> The modularization effort provides a wonderful opportunity to give
> Squeak a frame-up restoration for 3.10 and  beyond.   I continue to
hope
> that we will take a collective deep breath and clean up the modules as
> they go into the next image; now is the time.  

Amen




Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bills at anest4.anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029