But it is a much easier sell if you provide your radical solution one bite 
at a time.  As always.


>From: Brad Fuller <brad at bradfuller.com>
>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers 
>list<squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers 
>list<squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>Subject: Re: Making Squeak more accessible and used - reversing the trend
>Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 15:01:59 -0800
>
>Yep, if you want to move beyond the status quo and provide tools that seem 
>odd at first blush to users, it's going to be a tad tougher sell. as 
>always:
>
>"It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry
>out, nor more doubtful of success, nor dangerous to handle, than to
>initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all
>those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all
>those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising
>partly from fear of their adversaries, who have the laws in their favor;
>and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in
>anything new until they have had actual experiences of it. Thus, it
>arises that on every opportunity for attacking the reformer, his
>opponents do so with the zeal of partisans, the others only defend him
>half-heartedly, so that between them he runs great danger."
>
>1513 AD Machiavelli
>
>
>Giuseppe Luigi Punzi wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I disagree with native windows. One of the features of Squeak is get an 
>>image and load it on any OS without changes with a proper vm. And I love 
>>this as much as I love the Smalltalk/Squeak way to develop.
>>
>>The thing could be change with the windows feel. More like a normal window 
>>but with the squeak features.
>>
>>As I said one day: 
>>http://weeklysqueak.wordpress.com/2006/10/18/squeak-toy-or-instrument/
>>
>>I'm founding my company, and talking with my girlfriend, I told her about 
>>make my projects on smalltalk. She told me:
>>
>>  "all the benefits if you use squeak are very good but, what happen with 
>>the end-user? The end-user have fear about changes. You can make a ERP 
>>with Squeak?" Yes I told it. "And looks like other apps?" No "Then will be 
>>very difficult to sell"
>>
>>I told her about XProgramming, OO benefits, blablabla all very beautiful 
>>but as She saids,
>>
>>"If you give an app to an end-user and this app don't looks like a normal 
>>app, this end-user doesn't want it. He will not use the app because look 
>>strange."
>>
>>I have the same opinion I expressed on October 2006. Is good if Squeak 
>>have a different look, for the actual look exists SqueakLand with her own 
>>image. I don't talk about gray apps (as Diego calls it). But a lot of 
>>widgets inside the image, with a business look could be interesting.
>>
>>Develop over squeak is fun, and this is important, but, the end-user 
>>doesn't understand about develop fun. "He" wants work, not develop, and 
>>"he" don't want "coloured windows" because disconcern it. I pay my bills 
>>thanks to the app's I develop. If I can't sell my app's, then I can't pay 
>>my bills. I don't like this way, but is the reality. The end-user is the 
>>boss, and you must do your work as "he" wants, because "he" pay.
>>
>>If you offer an app in Squeak, and other company offer the same app, but 
>>developed over VB, .NET, Java etc.., he will choose the VB,.NET,Java 
>>project because the other is strange and doesn't look an app.
>>
>>Now, some people will be answer with "Komanche+Seaside=Web Interface" but, 
>>as I said, (I think) the web interface is not the solution, not all the 
>>end-users likes web interface to work (a point of sale on a supermarket 
>>for example), and remember, "he" pay.
>>
>>Is sad. All is around money, yes, but is the reality and, I think, all of 
>>us, wants work with Squeak using it on commercial projects for our own 
>>benefit, and not use it only on home to invest.
>>
>>There are "solutions" (¿solution?) like wxSqueak, but seems not continued.
>>
>>IMHO, If Squeak change the look&feel, could be the Smalltalk flavour thath 
>>make shadow to VisualWorks. And we, the developers (and users), don't need 
>>a pink debug window to fun developing.
>>
>>Well, this is only my pesonal opinion (not the solution) about this 
>>(again). My 2 cents.
>>
>>El Sábado, 3 de Febrero de 2007 22:00, J J escribió:
>>>I have been thinking about this stuff as well.
>>>
>>>Vista is out, and the places I read think Microsoft may have opened the
>>>door for some competition (due to trying to force DRM down everyone's
>>>throats, etc.).  If Steve Jobs goes for it, Micheal Dell said he is
>>>interested in shipping Dells with Mac OS on them.  Some people are even
>>>saying Linux may gain some big market share.
>>>
>>>So what this means to me is, people will be looking for an easy way to 
>>>make
>>>GUI applications on these platforms.  I know nearly nothing about the MAC
>>>world, but in Linux the only RAD tool I am aware of is a code generator 
>>>for
>>>GTK.
>>>
>>>Now in Smalltalk we always say (and I believe) that we can be much more
>>>productive then other languages.  So I think it may be time to prove it.
>>>
>>>I don't know how many of you have used Dolphin, but it is an amazing
>>>system. It only works on windows, but the GUI is wonderful and looks just
>>>like a normal windows app.  And what is more, after you build an
>>>application, it has tools to automatically package up the application you
>>>write and turn it into a MSI kind of package.  This includes turning
>>>certain parts into DLL's so that if you write multiple applications they
>>>can share libraries, etc., etc..
>>>
>>>And I think Dolphin is currently the perfect system for building native
>>>windows apps.  You get as much, or more speed then a VB environment but
>>>vastly more power.
>>>
>>>What would be nice, is if Squeak had something like this.  A great GUI
>>>builder (maybe it has already) and some way that we could use some system
>>>to turn an application we write into a native Linux/Mac OS package.  
>>>Well,
>>>native looking.  If you check what Dolphin installs you would find a
>>>smalltalk interpreter in there.  The payback with the installer is, we 
>>>can
>>>then submit "binaries" to distributions like Debian for any applications 
>>>we
>>>make.  The end user doesn't need to know it is Smalltalk.  If we end up
>>>becoming a big player in the Linux and/or MAC world, people will be
>>>*begging* us to share how we are doing it.
>>>
>>>With a rapid GUI development tool bound with the productivity of the
>>>Smalltalk language and the platform independence of Squeak we could have
>>>quite an advantage in the native UI space.  And I understand the concerns
>>>about making apps that do things that already exist, but what we have to
>>>remember is that all applications change all the time.  What a Word
>>>processor looked like 5 years ago is a little different then what they 
>>>look
>>>like today and will be still more different in another 5.  Not 
>>>drastically,
>>>but new features are being added.  All we have to do is keep up with the
>>>features they have and add our own here and there.  To take a page from
>>>Paul Graham's book, when ever a "competitor" adds a feature, we can have 
>>>it
>>>the next day.
>>>
>>>Think about Mozilla for example.  They are pretty advanced, but it is an
>>>enormous code base in C.  They can't add new core features quickly.
>>>
>>>I still believe the web will play an even larger roll in the future then
>>>now, but we will always have to have *some* native apps (a browser if
>>>nothing else).  And if MAC gets a bigger percentage of the desktop market
>>>share (and maybe even Linux), this could open up an opportunity that 
>>>wasn't
>>>there before.  And I don't think anyone can move to cover that gap as 
>>>quick
>>>as Smalltalk can.
>>>
>>>>From: Brad Fuller <brad at bradfuller.com>
>>>>Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers
>>>>list<squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>>>>To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
>>>>Subject: Making Squeak more accessible and used - reversing the trend
>>>>Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:05:01 -0800
>>>>
>>>>All,
>>>><sniped>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> >From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to 
>>>the
>>>
>>>Academy Awards®
>>>http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline1
>>
>
>
>--
>brad fuller
>www.bradfuller.com
>

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