Craig,
I appreciate your unpleasant situation - so many important ideas waiting 
to be realized and nobody willing to pay your living expenses. (I'm 
extremely fortunate, I get my pension and nobody asks me how I spend my 
time). So, as I have said before. SPOON is too promising to be stopped.

More comments inline below.



On 12.07.2007 22:36, Craig Latta wrote:
> Hi--
>
>      Trygve writes:
>
>   
>> The idea of "burn the disk packs" was a fundamental mistake; it
>> doesn't take into account that the value of a release image is
>> minuscule compared to the value added by user/programmers. The idea of
>> a personal computer cannot be reconciled with the idea of throwing
>> everything away every few years. What about my address book, my diary,
>> the useful program I wrote two years ago, the program I'm working on
>> now. (My programs are part of my personal data)
>>     
>
>      Well, I wasn't asking anyone to throw anything away. I was asking
> for planning. Continuity is actually very important to me. Indeed, if it
> weren't, I wouldn't have taken the tactic of changing Squeak into what I
> want; I would have made something completely new. I'm also putting a lot
> of work into paths from current Squeak to Spoon (e.g., adapting my VM
> and remote browsing changes to Squeak 3.9).
>   
We agree on this point. I'm afraid I was riding a hobby horse here.
>> I am afraid you expect too much from the community.
>>     
>
>      It seems so.
>
>   
May be the community expects too much from you, too. When I tried to 
start SPOON a the end of May, I followed your instructions to "view the 
current _installed modules", but got an error. When I reported it, you 
answered "Great, you got as far as trying that! :) Those things don't 
actually work in that release, stay tuned for the next release." I may 
be naive, but I did not expect you to invite me to spend my time on 
things that just cannot work.
>> I am working on my own pet project(s). Like everyone else, I am trying
>> to avoid committing /error 33: Predicating one research effort upon
>> the success of another.
>> (http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/E/error-33.html)
>>     
>
>      Ah, but I think we take that too far and commit error 34 (insisting
> upon small incremental changes *at all times*) and error 35 (being
> unwilling to imagine a way to achieve larger changes in the future). I
> think these are much worse than error 33, and as an exquisite case in
> point I present the very origin of that term, Xerox PARC. :)
>
>   
I know error 33 came from PARC; I was there. But you misunderstand it. 
It leaves you free to reinvent the world, but warns me about prematurely 
building on your results. I do not insist on small incremental changes. 
That is precisely why I hope for a usable SPOON, an environment for new 
and fundamental changes that can co-exist with the old.
>> Still, I do want to try SPOON. But I got wary when I followed the
>> installation directions and immediately crashed. Perhaps the project
>> hasn't got as far as I expected.
>>     
>
>      It is indeed alpha software currently, as marked. Still, I hadn't
> thought that would keep people from considering possibilities.
>   
You first have to give me something to consider... :-)

Cheers
--Trygve 

-- 

Trygve Reenskaug      mailto: trygver at ifi.uio.no
Morgedalsvn. 5A       http://folk.uio.no/trygver
N-0378 Oslo           Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
Norway 
 

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