Companies giving back? (was Re: ANSI Smalltalk)

Sebastian Sastre ssastre at
Wed Nov 14 13:12:01 UTC 2007

Hey Göran!, all,

	I agree with Göran's position. Was well expressed, Squeak must take
care to keep moving forward with it's own legs. That should be a not
negotiable point for this comunity. 

	Besides I'm also not sure about bounding Squeak to ANSI will add
real value for the Squeak experience. It can inject reliability at the cost
of an uncertain measure of extra inertia or resistance to grow. I'm not sure
about that being a good deal for Squeak due to lack of resources for that

	You also certainly got a point about comercial smalltalk vendors
taking direct benefits of Squeak. The most significative example is Seaside
being used in Visual Works and soon in Gemstone/S. They do have strategic
interest and responsibility on support at least that in Squeak. But this
fact is very good. We should ask/claim for some very reasonable support.
Without doubt this is an opportunity for us and them. And is not limited to
this ANSI comitee. Late binding technologies are gaining space at a solid
peace. Smalltalk has leader virtues in that regard so we have to show we
know that and use cleverly the support we can gain to keep inventing a best


Sebastian Sastre

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: squeak-dev-bounces at 
> [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at] En 
> nombre de goran at
> Enviado el: Miércoles, 14 de Noviembre de 2007 05:08
> Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Asunto: Companies giving back? (was Re: ANSI Smalltalk)
> Hi folks!
> Todd Blanchard <tblanchard at> wrote:
> > Does it matter?  I don't think we bothered to implement the 
> last ANSI 
> > standard fully. :-)
> > 
> > On Nov 13, 2007, at 5:43 AM, stéphane ducasse wrote:
> > 
> > > who wants to sponsor me?
> > > I'm sorry but I do not have 1200 USD to be able to participate.
> > >
> > > Stef
> Of course I agree with Todd - I like Squeak to move forward 
> on its own legs and not be stuck in any standard process. We 
> have already added Traits for example. BUT... of course it is 
> "nice" if there is an ANSI package around or whatever - it 
> may help in porting efforts - but I would never make it a goal.
> Finally, if we DO want to participate in this, why don't say 
> Cincom/GemStone/other-company-making-money-off-of-Seaside (just a good
> example) stand up and say... hey, "you guys - the Squeak 
> community - can participate through us on this!" - or "we can 
> put in some of that money for you!".
> Just an idea.
> regards, Göran
> PS. I don't generally think companies "owe" anything - this 
> is open source after all - but I just want to put a finger on 
> the fact that the Smalltalk vendors are increasingly 
> depending on the Squeak (or larger "open source Smalltalk" 
> community) community. So they actually have lots of goodwill 
> and also immediate practical benefits to gain here.

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