[squeak-dev] Install on Debian / Ubuntu binary-amd64

Philippe Marschall philippe.marschall at gmail.com
Thu Apr 24 08:34:51 UTC 2008


2008/4/24 Norbert Hartl <norbert at hartl.name>:
>
> On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 11:23 +1000, Edward Stow wrote:
>  > On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert at hartl.name> wrote:
>  > >
>  > > On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 08:20 +1000, Edward Stow wrote:
>  > >  > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
>  > >  > <m.coba.m at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > >  >
>  > >  > > >
>  > >  > >  I use squeak inside a chroot as per instructions here:
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  as there is no 64 bit perfect setup for squeak
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  I installed squeak inside the chroot with the repositories from squeak.org
>  > >  > > (section other OSes)
>  > >  > >
>  > >  > >  hope this help
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Yes is does -- it does confirm that a simple install is not available
>  > >  > for amd64 architecture.  By simple, I mean  sudo apt-get install
>  > >  > squeak.
>  > >
>  > >  > And it doesn't.  I have a hard time convincing my sys admins and their
>  > >  > bosses to take seriously a package that does not have a
>  > >  > straightforward install process on 64 bit machines.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > chroot'ing in their words is for 'legacy and un-supported systems that
>  > >  > should not be installed on a production server.'
>  > >  >
>  > >  > I am trying to set up a demonstration server that will allow squeak
>  > >  > with seaside to be considered a viable alternative.  I should say that
>  > >  > I'm not a sys admin and am feeling very frustrated with the lack of
>  > >  > installable options.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > So please ... could those that maintain the debian and / or other os
>  > >  > vms create an installable 64 bit deb and / or rpm.
>  > >  >
>  > >
>  > >  At the moment there is no packaged version which does compile on amd64.
>  > >  Otherwise it would be quite simple to create such a package. You can run
>  > >  32 bit applications on 64 bit but on a debian package level this is not
>  > >  an easy task to achieve.
>  > >
>  > >  If you want to setup an demonstration server why you don't take the
>  > >  installer script which comes with the vm package on squeakvm.org ? This
>  > >  installs the 32bit binaries on your machine.
>  > >
>  > >  I created a package for you which is a amd64 target ubuntu package which
>  > >  contains the binaries from the 3.10.1 i686 package from squeakvm.org.[1]
>  > >  It installs into /opt/squeak. You can use use
>  > >
>  > >  /opt/squeak/bin/squeakvm YOUR-IMAGE
>  > >
>  > >  to start squeak. Don't be misled by the ubuntu in the package name. It
>  > >  should install on debian as well.
>  > >
>  > >  Let me know if you have trouble using it.
>  > >
>  > >  [1] http://selfish.org/files/deb/squeak-vm-i686_0.1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
>  > >
>  > >  Norbert
>  >
>  > Thanks that works.
>  >
>  > But this is really a plea --- My guess is that 95% of potential users
>  > would have stopped by now  when apt-get install does not work.
>  >
>  Yes, sure it is. For the desktop side of the software the barrier is
>  lowered with the one-click experience images.
>  To be honest. How far will you get on a server if an easy installation
>  is your barrier? squeak does not provide any start/stop scripts for the
>  image. There is no maintenance scripts nor is there logging. You have
>  to know your software in order to use it properly. You are right I often
>  wish, too, that some things are achievable easier. But that includes the
>  configuration of a apache/tomcat webserver, too.
>  If you pass all this you still have to beat your sys admins. And that is
>  a hard task :) Taking your arguments (from the sys ads) and my
>  assumption that you are using java server stuff there is a huge gap.
>  They say "un-supported" and they use debian which is an OS which is not
>  supported. You should use ubuntu for that. They care about production
>  systems and they use a 64 bit OS version. There are really less needs to
>  have a 64 bit OS nowadays but there are still some problems. If I care
>  about stability I use 32 bit these days. Are you using java? Java on 64
>  bit linux systems is just not stable.

May I ask what makes you make such claims? Especially considering the
amount of really large production 64 bit deployments.

Cheers
Philippe

> Openjdk is getting there slowly
>  but it is IMHO not production ready. So I assume you use the 32 bit
>  ones. Then were is the difference? That in debian there is package which
>  installs you "legacy" 32 bit code on your 64 bit platform. That is
>  exactly what my package does. If a lot of people think this is a way to
>  go I would maintain such a package for some time.
>
>  I don't know what is your experience. Mine shows all the time that the
>  good stuff is pain in first. But most of the time it was worth it. So
>  don't give up. You have to know that you have at least one of the best
>  communities I know behind you :)
>
>  I'm glad my package worked. Are there any other finding a wrapper
>  package for 32 bit squeak on amd64 useful?
>
>  Norbert
>
>
>
>
>


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