[squeak-dev] Install on Debian / Ubuntu binary-amd64
Philippe Marschall
philippe.marschall at gmail.com
Thu Apr 24 09:22:51 UTC 2008
2008/4/24 Norbert Hartl <norbert at hartl.name>:
>
> On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 10:34 +0200, Philippe Marschall wrote:
> > 2008/4/24 Norbert Hartl <norbert at hartl.name>:
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 11:23 +1000, Edward Stow wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert at hartl.name> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 08:20 +1000, Edward Stow wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez
> > > > > > <m.coba.m at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I use squeak inside a chroot as per instructions here:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > as there is no 64 bit perfect setup for squeak
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I installed squeak inside the chroot with the repositories from squeak.org
> > > > > > > (section other OSes)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > hope this help
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes is does -- it does confirm that a simple install is not available
> > > > > > for amd64 architecture. By simple, I mean sudo apt-get install
> > > > > > squeak.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And it doesn't. I have a hard time convincing my sys admins and their
> > > > > > bosses to take seriously a package that does not have a
> > > > > > straightforward install process on 64 bit machines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > chroot'ing in their words is for 'legacy and un-supported systems that
> > > > > > should not be installed on a production server.'
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am trying to set up a demonstration server that will allow squeak
> > > > > > with seaside to be considered a viable alternative. I should say that
> > > > > > I'm not a sys admin and am feeling very frustrated with the lack of
> > > > > > installable options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So please ... could those that maintain the debian and / or other os
> > > > > > vms create an installable 64 bit deb and / or rpm.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At the moment there is no packaged version which does compile on amd64.
> > > > > Otherwise it would be quite simple to create such a package. You can run
> > > > > 32 bit applications on 64 bit but on a debian package level this is not
> > > > > an easy task to achieve.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want to setup an demonstration server why you don't take the
> > > > > installer script which comes with the vm package on squeakvm.org ? This
> > > > > installs the 32bit binaries on your machine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I created a package for you which is a amd64 target ubuntu package which
> > > > > contains the binaries from the 3.10.1 i686 package from squeakvm.org.[1]
> > > > > It installs into /opt/squeak. You can use use
> > > > >
> > > > > /opt/squeak/bin/squeakvm YOUR-IMAGE
> > > > >
> > > > > to start squeak. Don't be misled by the ubuntu in the package name. It
> > > > > should install on debian as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know if you have trouble using it.
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] http://selfish.org/files/deb/squeak-vm-i686_0.1ubuntu1_amd64.deb
> > > > >
> > > > > Norbert
> > > >
> > > > Thanks that works.
> > > >
> > > > But this is really a plea --- My guess is that 95% of potential users
> > > > would have stopped by now when apt-get install does not work.
> > > >
> > > Yes, sure it is. For the desktop side of the software the barrier is
> > > lowered with the one-click experience images.
> > > To be honest. How far will you get on a server if an easy installation
> > > is your barrier? squeak does not provide any start/stop scripts for the
> > > image. There is no maintenance scripts nor is there logging. You have
> > > to know your software in order to use it properly. You are right I often
> > > wish, too, that some things are achievable easier. But that includes the
> > > configuration of a apache/tomcat webserver, too.
> > > If you pass all this you still have to beat your sys admins. And that is
> > > a hard task :) Taking your arguments (from the sys ads) and my
> > > assumption that you are using java server stuff there is a huge gap.
> > > They say "un-supported" and they use debian which is an OS which is not
> > > supported. You should use ubuntu for that. They care about production
> > > systems and they use a 64 bit OS version. There are really less needs to
> > > have a 64 bit OS nowadays but there are still some problems. If I care
> > > about stability I use 32 bit these days. Are you using java? Java on 64
> > > bit linux systems is just not stable.
> >
> > May I ask what makes you make such claims? Especially considering the
> > amount of really large production 64 bit deployments.
> >
> That is a good question. This is mainly influenced by my experience
> with 64 bit linux installs and java runtime problems in the past. But
> this could be outdated. I'm sorry it is not very clever to make such
> claims without having the right arguments.
> On the other side desktop java on my 64 bit ubuntu hardy system is a
> pain. I'm propably be misled.
That is likely true. Often you'll either end up with blackdown, gcj,
kaffee or some other low-end, low-quality solutions. Even if you get
the Sun VM the Java plugin and Java Webstart are broken.
Cheers
Philippe
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