El 4/25/08 11:20 AM, "stephane ducasse" <stephane.ducasse at free.fr> escribió:

> Edgar
> 
> We are not saying that nebraska is crap. It can be fun.
> Now may be your students find it fun, however when I show squeak to
> students I would like to be proud of it
> and when they find Morph (with more than 1000 methods) or see that
> compiler is dependent of the UI
> then if they are smart they will think that I'm stupid, that Smalltalk
> is shit....So I never lie to students and tell them
> Smalltalk is a cool idea but Squeak needs some works to really shine
> and that we are working on it. Smart guys can then
> choose and do not consider Smalltalk = Squeak = Shit.
> Now in Sapphire we simply do not ***accept*** anymore to lose our time
> maintaining experiences from the past. I hate to see
> halospec defined in Preferences, to see all the dependencies
> introduced by etoy. Etoy is a cool experience and a successful one
> (I translated in french the etoy book so I do not have to convince
> anybody that I supported it)
> but it does not mean that we have to live under its tyranny. We
> maintained 3.9 paying attention to break as less as possible.
> We removed dilaectStream and other tiles based experiences that
> polluted all the AST. Experimenting is cool but when an experience
> is done either it should be cleaned up and lead to production code or
> we should drop it.
> Now we are free (open-source :)). You do not have to use what we will
> produce - just read our books :)
> But we will not lie to people, with what we are doing: no etoy, no
> nebraska, no experiences will be maintained.
> It does not mean that people will not be able to work to load back
> etoy into it but this is not our concerns.
> The only constraint we fix to ourselves is that Seaside runs on it and
> make sure that people will be able to develop and invent their
> future with a clean and lean Smalltalk.
> 
> We always have in mind the quote of dan stating that a single man
> should be able to understand Smalltalk, with a clean system
> with beautiful interfaces this should be possible.

Steph:

I apologize by bad temper.

I admire all your work and long support of Squeak and other duties Smalltalk
related.

Also I know Squeak need polish.

I do my best for help, sometimes I have too much passion and few brain,
excuse.

I could remove Etoys for 3.10, maybe not the cool way Juan do in his Morphic
3.0 image.

As seems rough to the time, Ralph decide keep Nebraska and Etoys one Squeak
version more and was a wise decision.

Nebraska have some glitches, also his successor in NetMorph works of Mashahi
Umesawa http://swikis.ddo.jp/NetMorph

Etoys could also have his successor in OLPC or others people work.

Both go away in 3.11 or any next Squeak and people should decide of enhance,
maintain or abandon they once we move to loadable versions in squeaksource.

Saying another Smalltalk version is best because could run Seaside is a
short goal.

Maybe Aida/Scribo could bet Seaside or another web framework arise and bet
both Aida and Seaside...

Having a good way for doing commercial web is not enough IMHO.

You say we should have fun, I try to have all in FunSqueak.

Could be better ? Oh yes, I waiting feedback and help.

Modular ? Small ? I try SqueakLight, both Pavel and Craig bet me in a way I
know never could do same as they do.

So I try to reshape Morph, in maybe 5 to 7 logical packages which could be
loaded on top of "Squeak 4.0" any this becomes.

And as Alan say , try to be part of the future.

Forks could be a good or bad thing , I don't know.
Linux have thousands and Squeak only few.

My last is again beg pardon.

Edgar