Hi,

> The purpose of putting scripts on installer.pbwiki.com is so that those
> scripts can be loaded into 'any' image with the minimum of Installer or
> at best LPF loaded.

The scripting idea is valuable when you want to "run" scripts (to
 produce output data) on a solid+fat+stable defined
 core of functions+components exposed by the scripting
 engine/compiler...
It is not the case for smalltalk systems, where any change can
 be done on the system, during an installation the intent is to
 produce change in the system, and the most valuable attribute
 of the system itself is it´s stability.
 (a very diferent scenario to where use of scripting has
 proven to be good)

>This scenario is intended to enable the user to see
> and select what to apply to their own images.

The real problem here is that "the user" (the owner of the
 system under my pov) must ask/respond without
 seen/understanding what will be injected and also without
 understanding some areas of the system that will be affected
 by the "script" (a script that is written by a person that do not
 know about the system it is been installed).

I consider that it is not enough to "see"/read the package
 intention, if the injection(ingestion?) of changes to the system
 is fast, "the user" will receive also more uncertaninty about
 the stability of the system .
Incremental (and fine grained) incorporation of pieces in a
 guided tour can be more effective; e.g. it is better to make
 incorporations of features as much slow as possible, to let
 the person learn about what is been incorporated and
 act/ask/reflect while understanding what is included.

If we let "smalltalk users" continue incorporating and using
 instant features, the effect is similar to copy&paste
 ("problems" appears when peolpe do not have time to
 think about it).

best,
Ale.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Hodges" <keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk>
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" 
<squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: SqNumberParser refactoring


> Dear Nicolas,
>> You are right on one point, it's too easy to introduce a typo in
>> mantis Installer hooks or PBWiki unstable branch scripts, making the
>> overall construction fragile (I made several myself). But that's only
>> the first stage of harvesting chain.
> Indeed it is only the first step.
>> It seems to me that PBwiki does have some filter at next level, though
>> I did not understand exactly the process for moving changes from
>> Unstable to Stable branch.
>>
>> And PBWiki relaxes a bit the hard job of reviewing/harvesting patches
>> from mantis, using a more collaborative way.
>> Installer and PBWiki are just tools for harvesters, like mantis is.
>> They help working around some of the mantis problems.
> The purpose of putting scripts on installer.pbwiki.com is so that those
> scripts can be loaded into 'any' image with the minimum of Installer or
> at best LPF loaded. This scenario is intended to enable the user to see
> and select what to apply to their own images. Its a place to easily try
> out and publish sets of fixes, temporarily, in lieu of a more formal
> process which will need more than just Installer/LPF.
>
> This is not the same as the more controlled formal process of building
> the next (3.11) release. For details of this more formal process...
>
> If you load into a 3.10 image...
>
> Installer install: 'Tasks'.
>
> You will find classes ReleaseAfterSqueak310 and
> ReleaseAfterSqueak310Unstable, the method #taskBugFixes has your bug
> fixes, as migrated from the original harvested
> installer.pbwiki.com/MinorFixesUnstable-Squeak3:10 page. You can now
> contribute your fixes to this package in repository:
> http://www.squeaksource.com/Tasks package: Tasks-Squeak3.10"
>
> To build a 3.11u (unstable test candidate) for yourself run the
> following command line...
>
> .../vm/squeak /Squeak/pr_next/Squeak3dot10.7159.image
> http://installer.pbwiki.com/f/LPF.st Installer
> do="NextUnstableCandidate" SmalltalkImage save=Squeak3.11u2
>
> This will soon be included in our automated build and testing tool
> "Bob", but for now you can give it a go. It's not quite there yet since
> the script doesnt run to completion as yet but you should get the
> general idea. As the script runs, the mantis reports for every fix
> loaded are collated and added to the instance side of
> ReleaseAfterSqueak310Unstable as documentation.
>
> best regards
>
> Keith
>
>
>
>