[squeak-dev] Re: worst crash yet trying to load
stuff from Packages Universe in 3.10.2....
Greg A. Woods; Planix, Inc.
woods at planix.ca
Wed Dec 17 01:39:28 UTC 2008
On 16-Dec-2008, at 6:13 PM, Keith Hodges wrote:
> Greg A. Woods; Planix, Inc. wrote:
>> How do I change it to whatever it should be for the official 3.10
>> release? I.e. what do I type or paste into that field to replace the
>> word "Development"?
So, I still don't know how to get to a proper "release" version of the
PU to open when I press the "Package Universe Browser" button....
>> Is someone going to fix 3.10.3 so that it uses the right PU?
> No, please don't.
> Development is the universe that is currently being updated with the
> latest stuff. Most things in there are tested against 3.9 and 3.10,
> since thats what developers are using, so it is the most maintained.
Sorry, but that's just not reflective of the facts at the moment.
The "Development" PU is stinky peee-yooo! It's clearly not properly
tested with even a minimum of attention to conflict avoidance. It's
full of old useless garbage (i.e. tons of unnecessary old versions of
almost every package). It's got some old junk that won't even work in
any way at all on 3.10. It's a worse mess than SqueakMap because
there's no hint as to what's been actually tested against the release
It is of no real use to any beginner -- it's just a way to get people
to give up and go away.
> Since 3.10 is the current released image then it is in the Development
> Universes that package load dependencies stands the best chance of
> This is what is called a compromise, and we know what needs to be
> and that is being done, just not in 3.10
So the compromise is to keep what outsiders see as the one true
official release full of untested garbage?
I'd say that's more of an outright failure instead of a compromise.
You don't put new users on the bleeding edge. That's just suicide.
If someone could tell me how to change my "Package Universe Browser"
button to open a PU browser on the official 3.10 PU so that I could
see what the official release PU should look like, and give it a go to
see if I have any better luck with it, then maybe I could have a
better opinion on whether or not it really would be better to set the
default PU back to the 3.10 official release PU or not.
If the only workable compromise really is just to try to go forward
then the best solution for helping new users in the immediate future
is to do the following:
1. remove the default "Package Universe Browser" button from the
3.10.2 and subsequent patch release/updated images.
2. tell new users (on the main squeak.org page and the downloads page
and any and all relevant Swiki pages) that they can get all the fun
stuff from some image like the FunSqueak image, but be careful to only
recommend the most stable and well tested version, not the bleeding
edge where just running the unit tests will core dump the whole VM.
3. set up an email gateway so that the "mail report" button in the
debugger actually goes somewhere where someone who can do something
about PU problems will take notice and do something to actually make
this forward progress. If I (or anyone else in my position) want to
help and I use the "mail report" button to try to help by reporting
problems I encounter, and then as a result I'm told that what I did is
useless because my report didn't go to the right place then I'm just
as likely to go away and leave you guys to your own mess.
Greg A. Woods; Planix, Inc.
<woods at planix.ca>
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