On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 08:05:25PM -0300, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>    TO ALL:
> 
>    Just we meet with Matthew and some words with Craig.
>    I also see Steph and Andreas sending feedback here or in release team
>    list.

Edgar and I met for 30 minutes this morning and discussed what a
3.11 based on 3.8.2 would look like, how to get there, and how
  one could have the best of both changesets and packages for
  the release process:

- Porting the 3.9 and 3.10 fixes back to changesets would be the
  best way to ensure the sanity of the release team. Edgar says
  the tool World > Open > PackageList could keep the image
  modular without MC loaded. I'm not sure how this works, but
  sounds interesting
- If we did that, how would we generate these change-sets? Edgar
  says an experimental branch using DeltaStreams in parallel
  with change sets may be useful, but we didn't discuss it much.

My comments about the meeting:
- A deltaStream-based update stream would be a good experiment,
  but DeltaStreams doesn't yet have a script to generate diff's
  from MCZ packages. However, I have made one before (as part of
  my SqueakSource commit emails project) that we could use to
  partially automate this conversion.
- DeltaStreams would be usable for this task, but not much so.
  But this would only be an experiment. I don't see DeltaStreams
  making the task of release easier for some time yet,
  especially as the file-out format is still
  not-forward-compatible binary, and no "subscription" mechanism
  exists yet in DS, due to it's alpha status. However, the core
  mechanism of change-model and SystemEditor is pretty stable,
  and is due for a stress test; this would be a good stress test
- I don't want to give you the impression that we are going to
  abandon the 3.10 release. Keith and I would like to maintain
  it via LPF just as much as Edgar wants to make 3.11 out of
  3.8.2. I would like there to be two 3.11 releases: one with
    traits and the other without. This just didn't arise in the
    meeting

> 
>    It's important we reach some agree for next 3.11.
>    We only exchange ideas , trying to see the best road to follow.
> 
>    I repeat my vision.
> 
>    One day I wish to have a very small and smart thing.
>    I open workspace and say "Pier" and all loads and I in bussiness.
> 
>    Maria wish play "DressTheDoll" with Etoys, then she type DressTheDoll (and
>    the thing only loads the needed to she).
> 
>    Some talented music (many Squeakers ) choose the last Stephane Rollandin
>    have and voila, he is doing jazz, tango or Nepal music (and not load Etoys
>    or Web)
> 
>    Sure many more examples.
> 
>    Now we have 3.10 , some just discover could load several things automatic,
>    some don't know 3.10 lack some packages living outside the base image.
> 
>    3.11 could cut more packages and load again if needed.
> 
>    The goal is going closer to MinimalMorphic.
>    Then to Kernel.
>    Then to Spoon.
> 
>    I apologize if Craig or Pavel think different, sure they could explain
>    better.
> 
>    The point is if we should start from 3.8.2 (without Traits and Monticello)
>    or we should continue from 3.10 is now.
> 
>    The tentative image I put in ftp is only a first prototype idea and was
>    3.10.
> 
>    But some believe could have sense do some similar from 3.8.2
>    Kind of 3.10 without Monticello and Traits.
> 
>    So we listen all ideas, wait all help.
> 
>    ========
>    Next meeting is scheduled tomorrow 2 February 2008 on IRC
> 
>    8:00 Phoenix 16:00 Rosario 13:00 Europa
> 
>    ======
> 
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-- 
Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/
Help improve Squeak Documentation: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/808