Hi,

> Something like this is going to be full of subtleties, so maybe 
> simulation offers benefits that gestation doesn't. Any thoughts?

As I know simulation works on an image (a snapshot).
One of the problems in Andreas proposal (as I understood)
 is that you can´t work on the system you are building while
 it does not has the minimal tools (e.g. to send messages,
 or to add/remove/debug methods...)
Doing by gestation you can use all th etools of the
 hosting system, because both systems are "working"
 and all the objects the system in gestation are defined
 as normal objects in the host system.

The system in gestation is part of the parent system
 and all the machinery and tools are normal (but modified)
 tools of the parent.

cheers,
Ale.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Colin Putney" <cputney at wiresong.ca>
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" 
<squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Creating an image from first principles


>
> On 7-Jul-08, at 7:49 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
>
>> Voila, at this point we have a fully functioning kernel image,  created 
>> completely from first principles.
>>
>> Once you have the kernel image there is no end to the fun: Since you  can 
>> now start sending messages "into" the image (by way of the  simulator) 
>> you can compile any code you want (incl. pools and class  vars) and 
>> lookup the names properly by sending a message to the  interpreter 
>> simulator. And then you just save the image and are  ready to go.
>>
>> Anyone interested?
>>
>> PS. Oh, and I'd be also interested in defining a good interface to  do 
>> this by means of Hydra, i.e., instead of having to run the  simulator run 
>> the compiled VM on an "empty image" to do all of this  "for real" instead 
>> of in the simulator.
>
> Interesting approach.
>
> It seems a little more complicated than Alejandro's "gestation"  approach, 
> though. With gestation, the child image is created *inside*  the parent 
> image, carefully avoiding out-pointers. Then the child  image is written 
> out to disk with a system tracer.
>
> Something like this is going to be full of subtleties, so maybe 
> simulation offers benefits that gestation doesn't. Any thoughts?
>
> Colin
>
>