[squeak-dev] Re: what is holding back Smalltalk?

Antony Blakey antony.blakey at gmail.com
Fri Nov 21 23:39:29 UTC 2008


Randal,

your web page doesn't come across like your mailing list  
communication, which has always seemed non-inflammatory and  
reasonable. Two things immediately annoy me on the page you reference.  
Firstly you say 'Damn you GPL'. Second, the comment you quote says  
that the GPL is 'completely unacceptable', which IMO is an aggressive  
(redundant) overemphasis. If it had simply said 'incompatible' it  
wouldn't piss me off, and would merely stand as the warning you intend.

I'm building a commercial Smalltalk implementation that will have  
commercially licensed components e.g. not (L)GPL, or even MIT/Apache/ 
BSD. I don't support all of Stallman's philosophy - I don't believe  
there is any moral imperative for software to be 'free'. I support the  
concept of DRM etc etc etc. I'm not a GPL or even O/S fanatic,  
although I completely support the right of anyone to use any license  
for *their* work without being criticized for it. I perfectly  
understand Paolo's response to that web page.

One could "freely examine the implementation and use as is or derive  
from it to contribute to the squeak project" if Squeak was GPL. I  
guess the GST authors simply don't want people commercially benefiting  
from their work without giving anything back. Fair enough. Even so,  
IMO it is possible to use GST to deliver commercial applications that  
include non-(L)GPL ST source / documentation / resources, and I could  
in fact deliver a commercially licensed Smalltalk using GST, subject  
to some reasonable conditions.

On 21/11/2008, at 11:57 PM, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> I presume by "these sorts of responses" you mean Paolo's response to  
> me. My
> response is driven by my responsibility as being an elected member  
> of the
> leadership team, to ensure that Squeak 4.0 will have a completely  
> clean
> license. We worked very hard over the last few years to track down  
> every
> contribution to squeak since its beginning, obtaining legal  
> documents updating
> the license, and it would be a shame if a mistakenly derived work  
> from GNU
> Smalltalk were to taint the distribution once again.
>
> I'm serious about this, and will continue to bring it up in every  
> appropriate
> context. I wish this weren't the case: I pleaded with Paolo to dual  
> license
> the Smalltalk code in GNU Smalltalk under the MIT license so that  
> people can
> freely examine the implementation and use as is or derive from it to
> contribute to the squeak project. So far, these requests have been  
> declined,
> albeit understandably.
> -- 
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503  
> 777 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside  
> discussion
>

Antony Blakey
--------------------------
CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd
Ph: 0438 840 787

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god  
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other  
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
   --Stephen F Roberts




Begin forwarded message:

> From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
> Date: 21 November 2008 11:57:10 PM
> To: Steven W Riggins <mailinglists at geeksrus.com>
> Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> >
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: what is holding back Smalltalk?
> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> >
>
> I presume by "these sorts of responses" you mean Paolo's response to  
> me. My
> response is driven by my responsibility as being an elected member  
> of the
> leadership team, to ensure that Squeak 4.0 will have a completely  
> clean
> license. We worked very hard over the last few years to track down  
> every
> contribution to squeak since its beginning, obtaining legal  
> documents updating
> the license, and it would be a shame if a mistakenly derived work  
> from GNU
> Smalltalk were to taint the distribution once again.
>
> I'm serious about this, and will continue to bring it up in every  
> appropriate
> context. I wish this weren't the case: I pleaded with Paolo to dual  
> license
> the Smalltalk code in GNU Smalltalk under the MIT license so that  
> people can
> freely examine the implementation and use as is or derive from it to
> contribute to the squeak project. So far, these requests have been  
> declined,
> albeit understandably.
> -- 
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503  
> 777 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside  
> discussion
>


Begin forwarded message:

> From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
> Date: 21 November 2008 11:57:10 PM
> To: Steven W Riggins <mailinglists at geeksrus.com>
> Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> >
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: what is holding back Smalltalk?
> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> >
>
> I presume by "these sorts of responses" you mean Paolo's response to  
> me. My
> response is driven by my responsibility as being an elected member  
> of the
> leadership team, to ensure that Squeak 4.0 will have a completely  
> clean
> license. We worked very hard over the last few years to track down  
> every
> contribution to squeak since its beginning, obtaining legal  
> documents updating
> the license, and it would be a shame if a mistakenly derived work  
> from GNU
> Smalltalk were to taint the distribution once again.
>
> I'm serious about this, and will continue to bring it up in every  
> appropriate
> context. I wish this weren't the case: I pleaded with Paolo to dual  
> license
> the Smalltalk code in GNU Smalltalk under the MIT license so that  
> people can
> freely examine the implementation and use as is or derive from it to
> contribute to the squeak project. So far, these requests have been  
> declined,
> albeit understandably.
> -- 
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503  
> 777 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside  
> discussion
>


Begin forwarded message:

> From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
> Date: 21 November 2008 11:57:10 PM
> To: Steven W Riggins <mailinglists at geeksrus.com>
> Cc: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> >
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: what is holding back Smalltalk?
> Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> >
>
> I presume by "these sorts of responses" you mean Paolo's response to  
> me. My
> response is driven by my responsibility as being an elected member  
> of the
> leadership team, to ensure that Squeak 4.0 will have a completely  
> clean
> license. We worked very hard over the last few years to track down  
> every
> contribution to squeak since its beginning, obtaining legal  
> documents updating
> the license, and it would be a shame if a mistakenly derived work  
> from GNU
> Smalltalk were to taint the distribution once again.
>
> I'm serious about this, and will continue to bring it up in every  
> appropriate
> context. I wish this weren't the case: I pleaded with Paolo to dual  
> license
> the Smalltalk code in GNU Smalltalk under the MIT license so that  
> people can
> freely examine the implementation and use as is or derive from it to
> contribute to the squeak project. So far, these requests have been  
> declined,
> albeit understandably.
> -- 
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503  
> 777 0095
> <merlyn at stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside  
> discussion
>



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