[squeak-dev] Re: Ubuntu package maintainers help

José Luis Redrejo jredrejo at gmail.com
Mon Apr 20 16:47:35 UTC 2009


2009/4/20 Matej Kosik <kosik at fiit.stuba.sk>

> José Luis Redrejo wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2009/4/20 Matej Kosik <kosik at fiit.stuba.sk <mailto:kosik at fiit.stuba.sk>>
> >
> >     Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> >     >
> >     > On 19.04.2009, at 23:57, Matej Kosik wrote:
> >     >
> >     >> Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> >     >>>
> >     >>> On 19.04.2009, at 22:20, Matej Kosik wrote:
> >     >>>>
> >     >>>> Are there any versions of Squeak images that could be imported
> to
> >     >>>> Debian
> >     >>>> repositories? (some minimal images with sorted out licencing
> >     issues).
> >     >>>
> >     >>>
> >     >>> Not exactly minimal, but license-clean:
> >     >>>
> >     >>> http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/etoys/
> >     >>
> >     >> I have looked at it (btw. Jose already created and registered
> >     >> appropriate package---cool). Is it possible to somehow open a
> >     browser,
> >     >> workspace and such? (in that image)?
> >     >
> >     > It's not really meant for Smalltalk development, but you can press
> >     > alt-shift-w to get the full world menu.
> >
> >     The two images:
> >     - etoys
> >     - etoys-dev
> >     would fit to the Lex's scheme
> >     http://ftp.squeak.org/debian/squeak-on-debian.pdf
> >     I think, that whatever Jose wanted to achieve with his separate
> >     squeak-vm package can be achieved also with our squeak-vm package
> (now
> >     they are different).
> >
> >     What would be the advantage?
> >     - We could keep our rich repository:
> >      http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3616
> >      That contains also "licence unclean" packages.
> >     - Some of those packages could be posted to Debian
> >      - etoys
> >      - etoys-dev
> >      Really, people could then:
> >
> >            apt-get install etoys
> >
> >      and run it as:
> >
> >            etoys
> >
> >     - We would not have to maintain two (three, four, ...)
> >      separate squeak-vm package versions.
> >
> >     How does this sound to Lex and especially to Jose?
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.
>
> Having two separate squeak-vm packages (yours and ours) is, by default,
> a nonsense. Unless there is a reason for it. Is there a reason?
>
> Cannot we create a single squeak-vm package that would work both, for
> you (etoys) and for us (packages published on Squeak wiki)?
>


The package currently in Debian should work with the image packages
published on Squeak wiki. I've not tested it, but as far as I know,  you use
the same directories as I use, they work.


>
> Are our goals (concerning what squeak-vm package should provide)
> mutually exclusive?
>
> Squeak-vm package must be maintained by someone, who actually also
> understands the source code and can solve possible minor problems. I am
> not such a person.
>
> I could ask in another way: cannot your goals be achieved by taking our
> squeak-vm package and updating it? If not, why?
>

Not, because:
a) your package doesn't have desktop integration
b) your package is developer friendly, not user friendly. A terminal is
needed to choose between the installed images. The package in Debian show a
zenity dialog (I've also added a kdialog if kde is used, but not uploaded
that change to Debian yet) to choose the images, so the user doesn't need to
launch a terminal and write some unix commands to get the image loaded.
c) your package compiles the MPEG3Plugin that can not be in Debian due to
patents problems.
d) If you take a look at
http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/s/squeak-vm/squeak-vm_3.10.3+svn1902.dfsg-1/changelogyou
can also see that I have added some patches to fix bugs that were not
fixed in the official sources when I did the package. Most of them are fixed
updtream today



Maybe, the question can be: cannot your goals be achieved by taking the
squeak-vm package available in Debian? if not, why?
Please, don't misunderstand me, I'm totally open to change the package , but
points a) and b) are really important for me. While the squeak.org package
doesn't have those features, I'm not going to take backwards my users.
Point c) is a must inside Debian.

About the etoys package in Debian, the only difference between the package
in Debian and the package in the olpc site is that Debian one is a deb
instead of a rpm. Appart of that, they are exactly the same.

Regards.
José L.
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