[squeak-dev] Re: SqueakMap Status?

Keith Hodges keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk
Fri Feb 13 17:06:22 UTC 2009

> Somehow I got amiable through Keiths Mail to the pharo list. He was
> blaming the pharo crew for not caring about squeak and things/fixes
> others do. That was exactly the reason back then for me to fix it in
> pharo and then open a bug on mantis as well. So it turns out that the
> integrational aspect doesn't work in either direction. 
It would work fine if....

SqueakMap was treated as an external package to both squeak and pharo,
and the repo, or at least a repo is available to any contributors that
want to improve things.

In squeak 3.11, 4.1 or what ever it will be called we will simply build
every build with the latest (credited to be working) version of the
external tools*, or if the tool is not present in the image, the
Sake/Packages definition will enable the package to be loadable. We make
no claim on the quality of the package, if it works or not that is up to
the package developers. The package is in any case an optional extra,
either unloadable if it is loaded, or loadable if it is not. As long as
full images are available for testing, the continuous testing and the
feedback loop should keep everyone on their toes and everything working.

*I never did understand why 3.10 shipped with a version of Installer
that was 40 (?) versions behind.

If in the case of SqueakMap situation mentioned you "fixed it in pharo"
then that means there is likely to be a new SMBase with your initials on
it, where is it? If it is languishing in a pharo repository, then that
simply illustrates my point. Namely, that pharo should conceptually
treat external packages as external packages, and contributors should be
encouraged to improve such external packages for everyone. e.g. tell the
maintainer what is going on, and check your changes back in to the main
development stream... isn't it rude not to?

My complaint against pharo is that while the rest of the squeak
community has been trying to modularize the image and treat more and
more modules as external loadable packages. The pharo team goes back 3
(?) years and ignores anything done in said external projects in the
meantime, thus wasting a lot of effort and emotional energy. The team
does this as a matter of principle, and it is this principle that I was
attempting to challenge (while far too tired and irritable).

btw thanks for you feedback


p.s. Göran, sorry I didnt think to scan Mantis, it was 5.30am, and I was
running on far too little sleep. I saw two new versions in the repo so I
assumed they would have some goodies in them already.
> And now I'm really concerned, too. Would be good to have at least a
> minimal exchange base between all squeak forks.
> Norbert

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