Hi Ken--

 > Just as you left #squeak earlier I was about to comment that I had
 > also been talking about Spoon and you in #squeak-cafe which we do not
 > log as policy and I was going to give you my comments and let you
 > respond if you wished... feel free to quote and correct me on #squeak
 > or anywhere as you like.

      Since I don't know who else was on #squeak at that moment, 
squeak-dev seems like the place... hi, everyone. :)

 > One of the reason for the naming of Spoon was that it was a fork and
 > the spin was 'Spoon is not a fork!' ;)"

      Actually, I always acknowledged that Spoon may remain a fork; it 
all depends on what people think of the design. Rather than having a 
singular message of "Spoon is not a fork", I was defining a "spoon" as 
"a fork produced with the hope that it is integrated later". See [1], 
item 5.

 > Unfortunately Spoon still relies too much on Craig and rises and falls
 > with his individual circumstances. Which I believe he would completely
 > acknowledge.

      Indeed I do. This project has an inherent bootstrapping phase 
where adding more people (at a distance) is a hindrance, not a help. 
That period has certainly gone on longer than I'd hoped, because paid 
work takes precedence.

 > He planned it to be different as of the last release, but something
 > went wrong there.

      Actually, the plan was for that to be different with the 
2008-12-21 release, which I missed.

 > Spoon does require VM changes and ships with a modified one,
 > but the changes are minor. The plan is to much much simplify the VM
 > for Spoon though.

      Those things are both true.

      (This next part was only in a private mail message from you, but I 
don't think you'll mind me quoting it.)

 > I think the community could benefit from a discussion of Spoon/Squeak
 > 5.0, the current status, immediate plans, and rough ideas of schedule
 > on squeak-dev.  Even just the clarification that you have lots of
 > ideas but that personal circumstances have gotten in the way of
 > progress in the immediate future is useful information that the
 > community should have.  Some might (and I know do) have ideas
 > they would like to consider exploring during 4.x but have held off on
 > the idea that 5.0 is right around the corner.  That's not really fair
 > to anyone.

      Well, we're not held to any particular duration for the 4 series 
(i.e., I'm not forcing anyone to hold off on anything), but I'm happy to 
provide information about Spoon.

      Current status: I have a headful object memory with editions in it 
describing its classes, methods, modules, etc. (see [2] for 
terminology). I have a minimal object memory, and I have another headful 
memory with tools in it for manipulating memories remotely (remote 
system browser, remote inspectors, remote debugger, etc.).

      Both the minimal memory and the tools memory can connect to the 
history memory and use that instead of a changes file. I can do 
traditional things like looking up versions of a particular method, but 
also more sophisticated queries (for example, methods written by a 
particular author over some time period, removed over some other period, 
and that access a particular instance variable).

      My current task is creating a minimal history memory, to go along 
with the minimal memory. I'm transferring editions for all the 
components of the minimal memory into a copy of the minimal memory, and 
fixing bugs that I uncover in the process. Then I'll have the pieces of 
the next Spoon system: a minimal object memory, and a minimal history 
memory that describes it. I will release that, along with changesets for 
the remote tools that previous (3.2 to 4.0) object memories can use. 
Then people can start composing Naiad modules for all the behavior that 
I removed (e.g., graphics support).

      In August 2007, I got a new job[3]. This had obvious pluses, but 
one big minus is that it takes up most of my time. It's not as bad as it 
could be, since I arranged to keep Mondays available for working on 
Squeak (by giving up Mondays at the job). But it's also not enough to 
keep to a timely release schedule, apparently. Spoon is enough to keep 
me busy full-time, at least until the module system is usable. The 
current phase of development is enabling collaboration, but 
unfortunately the bootstrapping I'm doing is not a task well divided 
between multiple people.

      At this time last year, I thought limiting paid work to four days 
a week would suffice for working on Spoon and releasing Naiad by the end 
of the year, while helping coordinate the Squeak community. I missed my 
goal, so I was wrong about that.


-C

[1] http://netjam.org/spoon/faqs
[2] http://netjam.org/spoon/naiad
[3] see "Research Meets Chocolate" in http://palblog.fxpal.com/?m=200902

--
Craig Latta
www.netjam.org
next show: 2009-03-13 (www.thishere.org)