Hi Klaus,

as these are the times to deal with community and feelings your answer is
a perfect sample what drives people like me away. I really don't like to
be offensive so please don't take it too literally. As an introduction I
think I am making a good point that is close to obvious. Neither is
bugs.squeak.org a closed tool where I have to register first nor must I
have been working for years with it to judge about its state. I can just
look at it. All I wrote is just my impression how I encounter squeak. And
I'm writing this even if I always have to think twice before posting to
squeak-dev.

> On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:02:20 +0200, Norbert Hartl wrote:
>
> ...
>> For the new setup to work well there is still one thing to do IMHO.
Sooner or later the bug tracker should help in organizing and
>> documenting changes. But mantis is in an awful state.
>
> Are you a Mantis user? I checked reporter id's but didn't find one
matching your name.
>
Why are you asking this? For me it has nothing to do with what I wrote.
But for me as a squeak user it sounds like

"Who are you to speak up against our work? What have you done to dare?"

Maybe I'm sensible for this but it sounds like to put others first in a
defensive state. From this on in my imagination you are already wearing a
grey beard. To me it doesn't sound welcoming at all.

For your information. I'm a mantis user? yes. You could find me in the bug
database? yes. I did ground breaking work for squeak? no.

>> There are nearly
>> 2200 tickets in the database. Coming from the outside it looks like
really nobody cares.
>
> Except to those people who use it. For example, Ken has recently closed
bugs which have fixes in 3.10.x ...
>
That is what I said! I never said that mantis is not used or obsolete. I
was referring to the amount and the age of the tickets. But if you want to
frustrate people than just say "Works for me". IMHO every other is
confused by a ticket system that contains tickets that are 5 years old and
have a rather massive amount. But the biggest problem is that I can easily
assume nobody of you has an overview over the open issues. So beside being
confusing what are these tickets helpful for? If they are obsolete close
them. If they are real bugs nobody cared the last 5 years so they can't be
that important.

Norbert

> /Klaus
>
>> A bug tracker with less tickets and tickets that
>> give an overview what is going on right now is essential. Maybe not for
the gurus and old timers but for everyone else (e.g. me). I would like
to propose a cleaning initiative of mantis. I would expect a lot of
these old bugs to be obsolete by now. So a quick check if this bug is
still valid can be done. And then if it is invalid you just need to
close it.
>>
>> Norbert
>>
>
>
>