On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 10:07 +0200, Nicolas Cellier wrote:
> 2009/7/6 Ian Trudel <ian.trudel at gmail.com>:
> >
> > Besides, you're also missing the trick when it comes to contribution.
> > On one side, there is quick and simple community development process,
> > based on MC repositories, and on the other side, some matis+installer
> > mantis+...+whatever. While the later might better fit to the release
> > process, it is not the case when it comes to contributions.
> >
> 
> 
> That raises the question: where will we find a database for tracing
> changes and providing some rationale?
> Mantis might be unefficient, but discussions in a mailing list does
> not cover much of mantis classification features.
> Can it be the work of the release team to classify and document the
> work from other guys? I bet they would soon be flooded.
> It's also important to trace why a change has not been accepted. A
> mailing list is too much a short memory and some subjects might come
> back recursively.
> 
> Andreas' proposition is certainly worth a try, but I don't see yet how
> these questions will be addressed.
> 
> Nicolas

Nicolas, I share you concerns.  It should be remembered that I was one
of the major proponents of switching from using the mailing list as our
bug tracker to the use of a bug tracker and supported at least
temporarily settling on Mantis.

But the reality is that it has been years now and very very few people
in this community make use of Mantis and no viable alternative has
appeared.  You are certainly one of the exceptions but you are in small
company I'm afraid.

Perhaps this is just cynical of me, but one of my hopes with this
proposal is that by inviting in a larger part of the community to
participate in the process at a higher level we will engender a deeper
understanding of the issues.

This is going to take some time but I can see two likely results:

1.  I'll learn that I'm wrong and that the use of some tool like Mantis
and the level of administrivia that requires is not necessary to the
smooth working of the development on a project like Squeak.

2.  A greater portion of the community will learn the value of record
keeping that tools like Mantis provide and will be more willing to put
in the effort needed to use and improve and perhaps replace Mantis with
a more suited system.

Continuing as we were did not seem to be resulting in progress and in
fact seemed to be resulting in our losing ground.  I think it's time
that at least for a while we walk down another road.

Ken
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