2009/6/28 Göran Krampe <goran at krampe.se>:
> Hi all!
>
> Matthew Fulmer wrote:
>> Awesome job guys. The volume of improvements Pharo has over
>> Squeak really makes me wonder if the latter has any real
>> relevance anymore.
>
> Yes, it is quite an interesting situation IMHO, and one that most of us
> could foresee too I think.
>
> NOTE: Read the following with a nice bucket of love, ok? I don't intend
> to make anyone upset. :) And sorry for the long post.
>
> On one hand I really appreciate the Pharo project - lots of good people
> doing lots of good progress etc. It seems to be doing simply great.
>
> On the other hand the "negative" effect I can see is the "drain" it has
> caused (I think) from squeak.org/squeak-dev. In other words, squeak.org
> has lost a lot of momentum, and of course not only due to the birth of
> Pharo I should add. And in many ways Pharo may also be the "rescue" to
> squeak.org. God knows we have been trying to find "our way" lately and
> with... less impressive results. :)
>
> So... how will the future evolve? Does the Squeak community (in the
> large sense) have anything to gain from keeping both the squeak.org and
> the pharo fork "alive"?
>
> I presume we have at least the following three scenarios:
>
> 1. Continue as now and take no specific action. This will probably lead
> to Squeak.org going weaker and Pharo stronger by the day. Developers
> will want to be where the "action" is. Soon squeak.org turns irrelevant
> and dies a slow death.
>
> 2. Take some decisive action and "merge" the two in some *smart* way
> beneficial to both. Impossible? I hope not.
>
> 3. Just kill off squeak.org. A mercy kill :). Then people could move
> over to Pharo without having to think about it - there is no other "Squeak".
>
> Eh, well, my analysis is probably full of silly holes here. Looking at
> the above, 1 and 3 feels less nice. So how could a "merge" look that
> would be attractive to *both* camps? I call the theoretical merged
> project Phreak below (but I am not proposing name changes etc, but I
> need a name to use in the text).
>
> Pharo characteristics:
>
> - A small "benevolent dictator" board. Lots of action, less talk.
> - Has a very clear stated "direction".
> - Has a website using CMSBox.
> - Uses Google code for issue tracker and wiki.
> - Has Mailman mailinglists and downloads at gforge.inria.fr (I think)
>
> Squeak.org org characteristics:
>
> - Has an elected SOB, an election process and a Team model. The jury is
> still out I think, we seem to have lots of trouble "getting shit done".
> - Has very little stated "direction" at the moment.
> - Has a website using Swazoo.
> - Uses Mantis, Swiki, file archive and Mailman on a community paid
> Hetzner server.
>
> Now... why would Squeak.org want to merge with Pharo?
>
> Pros: Get momentum back. 1 + 1 = 2. A revitalization. Very important!
>
> Cons: The SOB & Team model would probably have to be dropped. The work
> made since Pharo forked may or may not be a "lost cause", that depends
> on if Phreak is interested in utilizing that work. Other cons?
>
> ...and Pharo?
>
> Pros: An influx of developers. A much stronger position as Phreak would
> be Squeak + Pharo. No "compatibility" to worry about, Squeak is out of
> the picture.
>
> Cons: Some people in Pharo may perceive such a merge as dangerous since
> they might be afraid that certain aspects of Squeak.org (that Pharo was
> created in order to escape from) is coming back "knocking on the door".
>
> I personally don't think there is such a danger if Phreak simply adopts
> the simple organisation of Pharo (with board and all) BUT... since it
> would make the Pharo community much *larger* the effects of that growth
> need to be taken into account. But Pharo should not fear growth, because
> that would be an odd position.
>
> How could a merge be done practically? I really don't know :). And I
> must stop typing now, this post is waaaaay to long anyway and I have
> probably stepped on too many toes already.
>

Hello Goran.
You are definitely didn't stepped on any of my toes/toys. And i would
certainly sacrifice my SOB membership (if this is a sacrifice), to see
things moving & progressing as fast as they do in Pharo.
As many others, i eagier to see the squeak/pharo/phreak shining - make
it cool & modern software. The rest of things is barely bothering me.

What i like in Pharo, that they make decisions on strictly technical
basis - no politics. If code is good - it candidate to be included. If
code stinks - its a candidate to be excluded. Simple concept :)

For anyone, interested in my opinion:
  i would put a huge +1 for a merge on a Pharoer's conditions.

> regards, Göran
>
>
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-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.