[squeak-dev] Terms of Reference: discussion is open
eliot.miranda at gmail.com
Sat Nov 7 19:03:05 UTC 2009
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Ken G. Brown <kbrown at mac.com> wrote:
> At 12:00 PM -0800 11/6/09, Eliot Miranda apparently wrote:
> >On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Ken G. Brown <<mailto:kbrown at mac.com>
> kbrown at mac.com> wrote:
> >At 7:15 PM +0100 11/6/09, Bert Freudenberg apparently wrote:
> >>On 06.11.2009, at 18:46, Ken G. Brown wrote:
> >>>IMHO, such smart guys that are doing the majority of contributions to
> trunk could have figured out the way forward with Keith's established future
> methodology using Installer, Sake/Packages, Bob the Builder, MC 1.5/1.6 in
> about ten minutes. Some were already up to speed on the way forward. They
> could then have contributed fixes to the tools for that methodology where
> required and we would be now in the future instead of stuck in the past,
> forked yet again with the old trunk methodology (it's not a 'new'
> development model) that got us into the difficulties in the first place.
> >>>Ken G. Brown
> >>If it all sounds so easy (which in fact it wasn't, neither for the board
> members nor the community at large half a year ago) then why don't you
> contribute a tool everybody can use to easily harvest Mantis fixes into
> Trunk? Or add Installer support for trunk development? Or set up a Bob
> server to churn out ready-built trunk images and test results? Or make a
> trunk image with MC 1.5/1.6?
> >I believe you are looking at this the wrong way around. The trunk started
> at an old position.
> >As you surely know, latest Installer, lpf and Sake/packages are already in
> the latest <http://ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-lpf>
> ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-lpf or <
> ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-lpf-atomic/, ready to go for Bob the
> Builder. If the trunk additions were added to the latest, using
> Sake/Packages I believe we would have something. Andreas and I showed that
> the trunk repository gets quite far along loading into Keith's latest but
> with hacks required to overcome the divergence that trunk has taken. Someone
> with the intimate knowledge of what is going wrong could most likely fix the
> remaining issue/issues easily. Adding lpf, MC 1.5/1.6 etc. to trunk, just
> continues the divergence.
> >>It may take you more then 10 minutes but *that* might get us moved
> forward even faster. Trunk development does progress fine, but we're all for
> improved tools and processes, so let's see them.
> >You only need to look at Keith's documentation, videos, and emails to see
> where it is all at. He has explained this all in my opinion in enough detail
> over and over again.
> >We've already been over this. A disparate set of communications is
> inadequate. It is too onerous to try and understand the system from a long
> and multi-media thread. This needs to be committed to some web pages, e.g.
> a wiki.
> For a while (before trunk), I was saving pertinent emails to a blog at <
> http://squeaktipsandtrickswatch.blogspot.com/>. Some things have changed
> with Keith's stuff since but relatively minor I think. One could ask him if
> really interested.
> Here is Keith's video from 4 months ago
> http://www.vimeo.com/groups/squeak/videos/5434330 showing how to use
> Sake/Packages to load AND unload Seaside 3.0.
I am NOT sitting through a video taking notes. That should be done once by
the documentor(s), not multiple times by each viewer. A video is such an
ADD way of communicating technical information. It is NOT a reference
document. It is great for an informal talk that provides entertainment and
enlightenment in equal measure. But as a manual page it is pathetic. The
medium needs to fit the message.
> Ken G. Brown
> >Ken G. Brown
> >>And now back to the discussion at hand, shall we? Otherwise please change
> the subject.
> >>- Bert -
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