[squeak-dev] Gofer versus Installer was: The Trunk: Morphic-laza.489.mcz

Miguel Cobá miguel.coba at gmail.com
Tue Dec 14 22:03:22 UTC 2010


El mar, 14-12-2010 a las 15:35 -0600, Chris Muller escribió:
> > This is akin to the whole blue, yellow, other color click. The fact that
> > someday the way to use Squeak and smalltalk was with a 3-colors mouse
> > that doesn't validate the 2010 persistence of those terms to instruct
> > users to do something.
> 
> Miguel, for a better understanding about this, see:
> 
>     http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/897

Sure, I now, but I didn't know until three years after my first contact
with Squeak. That is not good and we can expect that every new user read
a wiki page to learn what the issue with the colored buttons is. This is
not going to (and have not) work. Aim to the lazy user. To the user that
"know" that the mouse have 2 buttons (or sometimes 3) or the mac user
that only have a big square button  and that is not going to learn why
is good to have more than one button.


> 
> The purpose for continuing to refer to colors is for the added level
> of indirection required by Squeak's platform-independence...   So we
> don't have to say, in all dcoumentation:  "If you're running on
> Windows, press the right button, if a Mac the Command-click, etc."

Maybe, but you're exchanging that for "read XXX wiki page and learn what
a blue button/menu is, no matter that in the real no new computer comes
with blue buttons"

> 
>  - Chris
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba at gmail.com> wrote:
> > El mar, 14-12-2010 a las 15:43 -0500, Chris Cunnington escribió:
> >> "Lets accept it. For good or bad, monticello packages are the way to
> >> go,
> >>
> >> and gofer desing is around this observation."
> >>
> >> Your position is too extreme. I argued against SqueakMap about as hard
> >> as anybody can six, seven months ago.
> >> I got serious push back. Gofer is great and there are lots of reasons
> >> to use it. But I don't see any reason to
> >> break things, or decide for people who want to do things in an older
> >> mode.
> >
> > Why extreme? Gofer made a decision to focus on Monticello because that
> > is the current de facto format widely in use. I didn't say, kill
> > SqueakMap or kill universes, I only said that almost nobody uses because
> > great majority uses squeaksource and monticello to publish new packages
> > and releases. Even if 10 or 50 people can raise the hand and say that
> > they use changesets or publish in squeakmap, that, based on observations
> > on the the squeak trunk, the squeaksouce.com latest activity landing
> > page and the mailing lists from pharo and squeak, this is a hard fact.
> > This is akin to the whole blue, yellow, other color click. The fact that
> > someday the way to use Squeak and smalltalk was with a 3-colors mouse
> > that doesn't validate the 2010 persistence of those terms to instruct
> > users to do something. This is plain blindness to the fact that today,
> > the mice sold and used in windows and linux have only 2 and with luck, 3
> > button, that in laptops is hard to do a 'middle-click' and the most
> > evident one that macs have only one button.
> > Legacy (code|platforms|customs) must be left behind and sometimes even
> > killed for our own good. :)  (that is indeed extreme, but I believe
> > it ;)
> >
> >
> >>
> >> "Better, add to Installer that which Gofer does that Installer
> >> doesn't."
> >>
> >> This doesn't seem like a great idea. As somebody pointed out, it has
> >> no active maintainer. Lukas maintains Gofer
> >> and there are reasons to use it: closer relationship with Pharo,
> >> contemporary MC integration (Metacello).
> >>
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Miguel Cobá
> > http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz
> > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 

-- 
Miguel Cobá
http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx






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