Well, I think those are good points.

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba at gmail.com> wrote:
> El mar, 14-12-2010 a las 15:35 -0600, Chris Muller escribió:
>> > This is akin to the whole blue, yellow, other color click. The fact that
>> > someday the way to use Squeak and smalltalk was with a 3-colors mouse
>> > that doesn't validate the 2010 persistence of those terms to instruct
>> > users to do something.
>>
>> Miguel, for a better understanding about this, see:
>>
>>     http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/897
>
> Sure, I now, but I didn't know until three years after my first contact
> with Squeak. That is not good and we can expect that every new user read
> a wiki page to learn what the issue with the colored buttons is. This is
> not going to (and have not) work. Aim to the lazy user. To the user that
> "know" that the mouse have 2 buttons (or sometimes 3) or the mac user
> that only have a big square button  and that is not going to learn why
> is good to have more than one button.
>
>
>>
>> The purpose for continuing to refer to colors is for the added level
>> of indirection required by Squeak's platform-independence...   So we
>> don't have to say, in all dcoumentation:  "If you're running on
>> Windows, press the right button, if a Mac the Command-click, etc."
>
> Maybe, but you're exchanging that for "read XXX wiki page and learn what
> a blue button/menu is, no matter that in the real no new computer comes
> with blue buttons"
>
>>
>>  - Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Miguel Cobá <miguel.coba at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > El mar, 14-12-2010 a las 15:43 -0500, Chris Cunnington escribió:
>> >> "Lets accept it. For good or bad, monticello packages are the way to
>> >> go,
>> >>
>> >> and gofer desing is around this observation."
>> >>
>> >> Your position is too extreme. I argued against SqueakMap about as hard
>> >> as anybody can six, seven months ago.
>> >> I got serious push back. Gofer is great and there are lots of reasons
>> >> to use it. But I don't see any reason to
>> >> break things, or decide for people who want to do things in an older
>> >> mode.
>> >
>> > Why extreme? Gofer made a decision to focus on Monticello because that
>> > is the current de facto format widely in use. I didn't say, kill
>> > SqueakMap or kill universes, I only said that almost nobody uses because
>> > great majority uses squeaksource and monticello to publish new packages
>> > and releases. Even if 10 or 50 people can raise the hand and say that
>> > they use changesets or publish in squeakmap, that, based on observations
>> > on the the squeak trunk, the squeaksouce.com latest activity landing
>> > page and the mailing lists from pharo and squeak, this is a hard fact.
>> > This is akin to the whole blue, yellow, other color click. The fact that
>> > someday the way to use Squeak and smalltalk was with a 3-colors mouse
>> > that doesn't validate the 2010 persistence of those terms to instruct
>> > users to do something. This is plain blindness to the fact that today,
>> > the mice sold and used in windows and linux have only 2 and with luck, 3
>> > button, that in laptops is hard to do a 'middle-click' and the most
>> > evident one that macs have only one button.
>> > Legacy (code|platforms|customs) must be left behind and sometimes even
>> > killed for our own good. :)  (that is indeed extreme, but I believe
>> > it ;)
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> "Better, add to Installer that which Gofer does that Installer
>> >> doesn't."
>> >>
>> >> This doesn't seem like a great idea. As somebody pointed out, it has
>> >> no active maintainer. Lukas maintains Gofer
>> >> and there are reasons to use it: closer relationship with Pharo,
>> >> contemporary MC integration (Metacello).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Chris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Miguel Cobá
>> > http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz
>> > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
> --
> Miguel Cobá
> http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz
> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>
>
>
>
>