>
> Keith I see Eliot's not responded, I think he's busy elsewhere.
>
> But your example here is completely off-base.
>
> The Squeak community resisted doing closures for *years*, and under  
> their breath muttered no friggen closures in squeak, but that's so  
> simple to do...
>
> Why:
>
> (a) It would break things and *force* people to migrate their code  
> at *their expense*.

Correct, so we need a process and tools that will provide the  
knowledge to ease this as much as possible.

>  The VM architects were extremely aware that was just the way it was  
> going to be.
>
> Eliot proposed a clean solution and pushed out the VM changes and  
> changes sets against a older Squeak/Pharo image to exploit it.
> I build a VM off that so someone could at least run it.

Ok, so perhaps I am being a bit unfair, because Elliot at least made  
his progress in an "offline" initiative, he didn't develop in trunk.

However, manually throwing the result into trunk is not much use to  
3.10 users, what is needed is a script and changesets I can apply to  
my working images,  in a repeatable fashion, within an environment  
that will do the appropariate regression tests.

> The Pharo community then took the VM, change sets and reviewed their  
> code base for additional fixes, later the same happen with the  
> Squeak trunk.

Actually I used Bob to build and publish a 3.10 LPF image first I  
believe.

It was based upon the 3.10 closures image that Elliot or Andreas  
produced, however i didn't have the knowledge to progress it any  
further, and when I asked for feedback I got none. I told Elliot and  
Andreas about the image and the bugs it was throwing up and there was  
not much response, (I assumed they were fixing the problems), apart  
form Andreas saying why are you bothering with this "3.11 would be too  
soon for closures".

> If there is stuff not converted then ask yourself is anyone  
> supporting that code?
> If it's your stuff, then either you or others you convince will have  
> to convert it.

How? I don't know how to. Its all very well for you vm hackers to do  
this, but the closures changeset hosed the debugger for me, and at  
that point its beyond me.

I need a script which shows me the end to end process of applying  
closures to a existing known released image, so that I can retrace  
those steps on my image. That knowledge would better be captured by a  
process which requires such contributions, and integrates them, rather  
than a repository where 10 people are all working at once.

regards, and thanks for your reply on Eliotts behalf

Keith
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