+1 on this.

Marcus, we have to talk about Persephone when I'm visiting in Sept!

On 28 Jun 2010, at 13:10, Marcus Denker wrote:

> 
> On Jun 28, 2010, at 1:46 AM, Eliot Miranda wrote:
> 
>> Note: The Cog VM crashes on TestObjectsAsMethods.
>> 
>> Yes.  I never tried to get this to work.  How important is this to people?
> 
> For Research: very. Lots of the experiments we did at SCG used this at least at some
> stage of implementing the prototype:
> 
> 	-> For the AOSTa experiments I looked at it originally 
> 	     (see http://www.slideshare.net/MarcusDenker/diplom-vortrag-slides)
> 	-> Persephone and therefore Reflectivity: http://scg.unibe.ch/research/reflectivity
> 	-> ChangeBoxes used it: http://scg.unibe.ch/scgbib?query=Denk07c&display=abstract
> 	-> I think ClassBoxes, too
> 	-> The most commonly used implementation of MethodWrappers these days uses it
>             (and is *much* simpler than the method-compilation-stub-generating one)
> 
> It's a quite nice way to hook into "method execution" without having to resort to compile a stub method.
> If you need an "in-image" JIT of some sort, it provides a real nice way of doing this purely from the 
> image side (no VM change needed):
> 
> 		http://scg.unibe.ch/scgbib?query=Denk07b&display=abstract
> 
> I think Andreas originally suggested ObjectsAsMethods years ago and I then made sure that it was 
> integrated in the VM, as the AOStA experiments showed how powerful this can be for experiments. 
> 
> AOStA had to use a patched VM, then later persephone could run on a standard VM, which simplified things a lot...
> 
> Yes, stub-methods can do anything (and with care can be faster), and having a good code-generation framework 
> simplified actually doing this a lot.... e.g. one can use bytesurgeon and do it on the level of bytecode.
> (the paper uses MethodWrappers as an example: http://scg.unibe.ch/cgi-bin/scgbib.cgi/abstract=yes?Denk06a)
> Or just the RB AST (with the code generator), maybe helped by Helvetia's quoting... 
> (more on Helevetia's quoting implementation: http://scg.unibe.ch/research/helvetia/languageboxes)
> 
> Nut nevertheless: a MOP for method execution is  very valuable not just from an implementation standpoint, even more
> from a concepual / thinking point of view. Good MOPs provide a better way of *thinking*, they enable exploration.
> 
> I always rated this as one of those changes that, while being simple, opened up a lot of space for experiments.
> 
> And it showed to me the value of a platform where a change like this is integrated and not ignored.
> 
> 	Marcus
> 
> --
> Marcus Denker  -- http://www.marcusdenker.de
> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.
> 
> 
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--
Johan Fabry   
jfabry at dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile