[squeak-dev] Re: Simple Frame Adornments - default value (was: unsaved changes indicator)

Andreas Raab andreas.raab at gmx.de
Wed Mar 3 23:18:52 UTC 2010

On 3/3/2010 2:22 PM, Chris Muller wrote:
> Ok, thanks for speaking up, I just didn't know whether there was any
> voice at all for the new look.
> And please don't get me wrong, I am *all for* better form.  And I even
> agree, this one "looks" better, artistically.  It's just that some of
> the 3.11 improvements to form have come at a cost to function, and
> THAT, in itself, can sometimes detracts from form somewhat (i.e.,
> greater function has implicitly better form).  Perhaps we considered
> making the ugly solid-line red-frame simply look better, like with
> three progressively-more translucent rectangles, each inset one pixel
> of the outer?  Or maybe a combination of the two looks, one
> (translucent?) line combined with the new (corner) look.
> Since your -1 is big and fat, I consider it the winner of the vote and
> I'll adjust my own Preference file accordingly.

Sorry, I did not mean to end this discussion. My big and fat was a 
"personal modifier"; I think we should find out whether people would 
prefer the default to be optimized for the looks or not. There are other 
aspects that I feel similarly about (colored window backgrounds being 
one) and that we've ended up to default to something else than my liking.

We need to find a way of doing quick community polls for those things; 
requiring people to post on the matter won't get us as much feedback as 
having an anonymous 3-click polling mechanism that's open for two days 
and just posts the results to the list.

> Going forward, if we
> can find ways to have our cake and eat it too, it would be better than
> having introduce a yet another Preference that forces one to choose
> between form and function.

Yes. And if anyone has suggestions towards this end, please post them.

   - Andreas

> On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Andreas Raab<andreas.raab at gmx.de>  wrote:
>> On 3/3/2010 12:40 PM, Chris Muller wrote:
>>> Thanks for adding the preference, but unfortunately the default is
>>> false such that the new way still presses in for each new image.
>>> In the original thread, there were two people who expressed this was a
>>> "step backward" for them, but there were no proponents for the change
>>> voiced.  Therefore, unless there are strong objectors who can make
>>> some arguments for, I'd like to put the default value for this to
>>> restore the default functionality that has been there for years.
>>> 3.11 has suffered several usability degradations over 3.9 in terms of
>>> the UI.  I would like to begin addressing them, starting with this
>>> one.
>> A big fat -1 from me. From my perspective the rectangular frame is ugly.
>> Simple as that. It's visually unpleasant and in conflict with the rest of
>> the window and the default shouldn't be that. If the new cue is too subtle
>> to be of use for you personally, that's what we got preferences for, but I
>> think we should at least *try* to get a teenie weenie bit less heinous in
>> the default L&F.
>> Cheers,
>>   - Andreas

More information about the Squeak-dev mailing list