Inline below.

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Overcomer Man <overcomer.man at gmail.com>wrote:

> I suggest a new fork
>

-1


> or possibly a new orientation for the next Squeak release:
> Adopt Cuis as the core image and focus on killer applications to attract
> new Smalltalk users.
>

+1. If I was allowed to do +100, you'd have that in a heartbeat:)


> Thousands of downloads are recorded on CNet for simple apps like a voice
> recorder.
> They could all be using and learning Smalltalk.  Same for many other
> applications.
> That would help make Smalltalk popular again.
>

:D I like the way you think!


> Recently I found Squeak / Cuis contains many Sound classes.  So I wrote up
> an email suggesting it to a community college teacher friend who had asked
> for a sound recorder.  Imagine my embarrassment when I found the files
> Squeak supports doesn't include .mp3.
>

Juan, I think it's time to bring out your synth, my friend! So .mp3 isn't
necessarily a deal breaker. MPEG should be convertible to WAV, but FWIW,
you're right. Squeak needs a Winamp/XMMS killer. Between this, and a
standards-complient web browser (read: nightmarish rabbit-hole) I can
practically ditch my operating system and live in Squeakland all the time.
Wouldn't that be *radical?*


> Squeak has so much unfinished half starts at programs, why not adopt Juan's
> work to flush the unnecessary, then get started on building a serious
> applications team to build truly useful free code.
>

Worth pointing out: applications which use Morphic will take real work to
make run over Cuis. Morphic in Cuis is a whole new breed of animal; fast,
lean, beautiful, and completely different from the tangle which many
applications expect to find down there.


> Another example, Roxio is a million dollar software company making a video
> recorder app. which is not as good as an ordinary VCR and not supported
> (they have a staff but try getting any real help).  Squeak could be
> capturing a slice of that market and enticing users to learn Smalltalk!  And
> source code can substitute for most support.
>

Yes! Redhat sells an open source operating system. We have an operating
system that's actually pretty! Why not Mousehat or something (obviously I'm
not from marketing)? I dig the entrepreneurial angle, Overcomer Man. I've
been thinking about this stuff for years. I dream of a BSD kernel and
nothing else but drivers and Squeak. Web browser is still an issue, but it's
no problem money can't solve.


> Another example, Solid Works is a 3D object drafting program that is simple
> and gets many thousands of users away from AutoDesk.  Can Smalltalk deliver
> most or all of that function with a FFI to openGL and some programming?
>  Certianly!
>

Have you played with OpenQwaq? It has tools that do some of this stuff in a
very natural way. If we can make these parts loadable packages, the whole
GPL thing becomes a non-issue for end users. Can't go into the core system,
but as a loadable package, everybody wins. I want to see what we can do with
a Cintiq graphics tablet, build ourselves a Robot Draftsman. Long live
Sketchpad!


> Finally, the one complaint I've heard on the job about Smalltalk is it's
> slow.
>

Eh... Smalltalk invented fast. Smalltalk's little sister, Self, invented
*very fast*. JIT and polymorphic inline caches make this a virtual
non-issue. And you can optimize for whatever you want because you control
the vertical, you control the horizontal. See also, L Peter Deutsch, David
Ungar, Eliot Miranda.

We have a fast VM now. This is a non-issue.

I recently added several thousand classes and find simply clicking on the
> class in a browser is now slow to respond.
>

Hmm. Have you tried using the performance spy to figure out where the
bottleneck is? Generally, most programs spend 80% of their time in 20% of
their code. A Pareto relationship. There is likely something running which
is sending more messages than it needs to be.

How big is that image file, out of curiosity?


> When end-users, not programmers, can type at 80 words a minute and more in
> a C app. or they can be limited to 30 wpm or less in a Smalltalk app. they
> demand C.  The new VM was a good improvement, now try to solve the speed
> issues in the image.
>

Sure, I mean. Cuis?


> Thanks,
> Kirk Fraser
>


Kirk, I really enjoyed your spirited comments. While I *do* think you have
some great ideas for new apps, I personally think the best plan is to throw
in on making the apps that Smalltalk programmers presently care a great deal
for (e.g., Seaside) run atop Cuis. This will take a concerted effort.

Cuis is a lovely little system. I find it the most broadly usable Smalltalk
-- certainly better looking than any other (antialiasing goes a long way
with rounded window corners, thanks again Juan) -- and I would love so see
someone experiment with the combination of Spoon and Cuis (to address
Lawson's point.)

Craig, if I wanted to try to Spoon-out Cuis, where would I start?

-- 
Casey Ransberger
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