[squeak-dev] Squeaksource, Squeak and Pharo..

Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2005 at gmail.com
Thu Dec 20 21:49:50 UTC 2012




On 12/20/12 6:14 PM, "Göran Krampe" <goran at krampe.se> wrote:

> Hi folks!
> 
> As the author of SqueakMap, long time Squeaker (and nowadays both
> Squeaker and Pharooner) and also involved in some other related projects
> (SmalltalkHub and more) my view might be of some interest.
> 
> First of all, Angel compares with the rest of the world - but we have
> both historic and technical differences at play. Some things worth noting:
> 
> - SqueakMap was indeed started out as a generic package *catalog*. It is
> not a SCM tool. It was format agnostic from the very beginning.
> 
> - Monticello and SqueakSource came from Avi. Superb tools but when
> Squeaksource came I quickly warned the community that it would deminish
> SqueakMap because it overlapped and "took over" several "catalog"
> aspects. I was right unfortunately, but at the same time SS was great
> and has served us very well in its own right.
> 
> - Noone has really taken SM and moved it forward. I also don't have that
> amount of free time anymore.
> 
> - SqueakMap is dead. Face it. :) It is not the future IMHO.
> 
> - Monticello and Metacello are the de facto standard these days for SCM
> and package loading. Metacello took the whole
> dependencies/tagging/releases issue and simply rode on MC to solve it. I
> have felt it looks overly complex but it's mostly some line noise - it
> is not that complicated.
> 
> - This also means that for a very, very long time package management and
> source code management will be forever "intertwined" in the Smalltalk
> world. Personally I say - fine! Again, let's just embrace it and go.
> 
> - The advantage is that Metacello "configurations" is "just code" and
> can offer functionality totally independent of the hosting platform for
> MC. So it doesn't matter if you load a Metacello configuration from a
> website, from SS or SS3 or Smalltalkhub - it all works the same!
> 
> - Monticello AND Metacello are meant to work in Squeak too. I haven't
> tried, but I presume Metacello works or is very close to working?
> 
> - Pharo is betting hard on Smalltalkhub. It is a really nice system AND
> there is also an image side client tool brewing for it! This means the
> equivalence of the SqueakMap Package Loader will be easy to build in
> Squeak for Smalltalkhub.
> 
> 
> So my advice would be:
> 
> 1. Keep SqueakMap on oxygen for a little while longer while we get ready
> to ditch it. Really.
> 
> 2. Bet hard on Monticello (we already do, right?) and Metacello for
> Squeak. Make sure they work. Embrace Metacello even if it does look a
> bit complex to begin with. There are lots of articles, tutorials and
> tons of examples to just copy from. I have written two configurations
> these last two days and "the shit works". Good work Dale! :)
> 
> 3. Get involved in Smalltalkhub and help out making it work fine for
> Squeak, note the name - *Smalltalk* hub. It's not Pharohub! Don't set up
> your own unless for some odd reason Pharo makes it uninhabitable for
> Squeak and turns it into "Pharohub".
> 
> Note that Smalltalkhub is "just" a new SS, but much more solid
> architecture, really snazzy modern web UI, offering githubish features
> and bloody hell, I mean, it can show diffs right there in the browser!
> 
> Smalltalkhub also has a really cool architecture so the coding fun is
> rated A++, Nicolas is busy as a bee making it better, better. I think it
> should be seen as a unifying playground and Metacello as the "glue" that
> makes it possible to have projects tailored for both Squeak and Pharo.
> It has many functions for EXACTLY that.
> 
> Either way, I am putting my efforts right there. IMHO the Squeak
> community should do so too. If the Squeak community can ride a bit on
> the momentum in Pharo - there is really no reason not to.
> 
> regards, Göran

+1

Now that you become wiser not have time for us....

Edgar




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