[squeak-dev] Squeaksource, Squeak and Pharo..

Juan Vuletich (mail lists) juanlists at jvuletich.org
Fri Dec 21 19:33:55 UTC 2012



Hi Dimitris, 

With Cuis, we use Github as the main place for storing packages. We use git as it is intended to be used. This means that we let git handle file versioning. Besides, Cuis uses lf as the line terminator. This means that git can diff and merge Cuis packages. For example see 

https://github.com/pbella/Cuis-Ports/commit/d2c70f95b6efee4f4d7671f432b4b304b5115c1d . 

Cheers, 

Juan Vuletich 

Quoting dimitris chloupis <thekilon at yahoo.co.uk>: 

> SqueakMap is dead, SqueakSource dead, later SmalltalkHub will be dead. 
>
> I am coming from pharo by the way, I am new with smalltalk, I was a python developer.  
> And I love squeak too.
>
> I dont understand why every smalltalk problem should be solved by smalltalk.  
>
>
> Github is a great community , already has gathered tons of ruby and python projects, js and many more. 
>
>
> I think its a great candidate for smalltalk, no offense intended but definitely better that what SmalltalkHub can offer. 
>
> I want to embrace at times all these smalltalk technologies, but is hard to abandon Gihub that I have used for my projects and support the smalltalk solutions instead. 
>
> I dont want to downgrade the hard work of good people, but its hard to compete with products that are designed full time by big teams and matured through thousands of use cases. 
>
> My vote goes to Github. 
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: Göran Krampe <goran at krampe.se>
> TO: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org> 
> SENT: Thursday, 20 December 2012, 23:14
> SUBJECT: Re: [squeak-dev] Squeaksource, Squeak and Pharo..
>
> Hi folks!
>
> As the author of SqueakMap, long time Squeaker (and nowadays both Squeaker and Pharooner) and also involved in some other related projects (SmalltalkHub and more) my view might be of some interest.
>
> First of all, Angel compares with the rest of the world - but we have both historic and technical differences at play. Some things worth noting:
>
> - SqueakMap was indeed started out as a generic package *catalog*. It is not a SCM tool. It was format agnostic from the very beginning.
>
> - Monticello and SqueakSource came from Avi. Superb tools but when Squeaksource came I quickly warned thecommunity that it would deminish SqueakMap because it overlapped and "took over" several "catalog" aspects. I was right unfortunately, but at the same time SS was great and has served us very well in its own right.
>
> - Noone has really taken SM and moved it forward. I also don't have that amount of free time anymore.
>
> - SqueakMap is dead. Face it. :) It is not the future IMHO.
>
> - Monticello and Metacello are the de facto standard these days for SCM and package loading. Metacello took the whole dependencies/tagging/releases issue and simply rode on MC to solve it. I have felt it looks overly complex but it's mostly some line noise - it is not that complicated.
>
> - This also means that for a very, very long time package management and source code management will be forever "intertwined" in the Smalltalk world. Personally I say - fine! Again, let's just embrace it and go.
>
> - The advantage is that Metacello "configurations" is"just code" and can offer functionality totally independent of the hosting platform for MC. So it doesn't matter if you load a Metacello configuration from a website, from SS or SS3 or Smalltalkhub - it all works the same!
>
> - Monticello AND Metacello are meant to work in Squeak too. I haven't tried, but I presume Metacello works or is very close to working?
>
> - Pharo is betting hard on Smalltalkhub. It is a really nice system AND there is also an image side client tool brewing for it! This means the equivalence of the SqueakMap Package Loader will be easy to build in Squeak for Smalltalkhub.
>
>
> So my advice would be:
>
> 1. Keep SqueakMap on oxygen for a little while longer while we get ready to ditch it. Really.
>
> 2. Bet hard on Monticello (we already do, right?) and Metacello for Squeak. Make sure they work. Embrace Metacello even if it does look a bit complex to begin with. There are lots of articles, tutorials and tons ofexamples to just copy from. I have written two configurations these last two days and "the shit works". Good work Dale! :)
>
> 3. Get involved in Smalltalkhub and help out making it work fine for Squeak, note the name - *Smalltalk* hub. It's not Pharohub! Don't set up your own unless for some odd reason Pharo makes it uninhabitable for Squeak and turns it into "Pharohub".
>
> Note that Smalltalkhub is "just" a new SS, but much more solid architecture, really snazzy modern web UI, offering githubish features and bloody hell, I mean, it can show diffs right there in the browser!
>
> Smalltalkhub also has a really cool architecture so the coding fun is rated A++, Nicolas is busy as a bee making it better, better. I think it should be seen as a unifying playground and Metacello as the "glue" that makes it possible to have projects tailored for both Squeak and Pharo. It has many functions for EXACTLY that.
>
> Either way, I am putting my effortsright there. IMHO the Squeak community should do so too. If the Squeak community can ride a bit on the momentum in Pharo - there is really no reason not to.
>
> regards, Göran

Cheers,
Juan Vuletich
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