On 14 February 2013 16:50, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com> wrote:
> No, this takes the Trunk image as is and runs the job. No stripping
> has occurred. Noone's actually said "oh, that's a sane idea someone
> should do that" yet (except possibly for you, by virtue of not saying
> "are you crazy?" :) ), so I haven't done it yet.
>
> So the installation is essentially a no-op.
>
> With green lights on these builds, we can now verify that removing
> these packages won't break anything. At least, to the limit of the
> tests, which isn't much at all. So if we _do_ actually strip these
> guys out of Trunk, the builds should stay green. If they don't, we'll
> need to roll back the change and investigate.
>
> But I don't actually know how to strip them out of Trunk. I _suspect_
> it'll be via a Monticello config map of some description.

Anyone? Bert? How do we strip packages out of Trunk?

> frank
>
> On 14 February 2013 16:44, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> OK
>>
>>     https://github.com/frankshearar/squeak-ci/blob/master/run-test.sh
>>
>> executes
>>    XML-Parser.st
>>
>> which contains
>>
>> Installer installUrl: 'http://source.squeak.org/trunk/XML-Parser-ael.35.mcz'.
>>
>> HDTestReport runPackage: 'XML-Parser'.
>>
>> "Throw away the dirty image."
>> WorldState addDeferredUIMessage: [ SmalltalkImage current snapshot:
>> false andQuit: true ].
>>
>>
>> I assume this operates on a trunk image which has the XML-Parser removed?
>>
>> In which script does that happen?
>>
>> --Hannes
>>
>> On 2/14/13, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> https://github.com/frankshearar/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-tests/XML-Parser.st
>>>
>>> They all get triggered by this guy, who I aim to replace with some
>>> Ruby (because I'd really, really, REALLY rather write Ruby than
>>> shell): https://github.com/frankshearar/squeak-ci/blob/master/run-test.sh
>>>
>>> So the jobs only differ in their command: `./run-test.sh Control`,
>>> `./run-test.sh XML-Parser`, and so on.
>>>
>>> frank
>>>
>>> On 14 February 2013 16:34, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Great
>>>>
>>>> where can I see what the script is doing for example for XML-Parser?
>>>>
>>>> Which script does the job?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.squeakci.org/job/ExternalPackage-XML-Parser/ws/
>>>>
>>>> --Hannes
>>>>
>>>> On 2/14/13, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> We also now have builds for XML-Parser, Nebraska and Universes (for
>>>>> what it's worth: the code coverage is abysmal).
>>>>>
>>>>> frank
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13 February 2013 15:23, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, thank you for the clarification, Frank. This makes a lot of sense
>>>>>> to me and I hope that others follow this line of reasoning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Hannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/13/13, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 13 February 2013 12:45, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I understand you correctly you want to do the following
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) unload some once packages from trunk. The packages are taken from
>>>>>>>> what is in the list in #unloadAllKnownPackages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) add a trunk method
>>>>>>>> #loadAllPackagesThatUnloadAllKnownPackagesUsedToUnload
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3) add CI build jobs which do
>>>>>>>> #loadAllPackagesThatUnloadAllKnownPackagesUsedToUnload and run tests
>>>>>>>> on the loaded packages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4) People use the result of 3) for regular work. This is the "full"
>>>>>>>> 4.5 image as we have of now only that we have less in trunk and the
>>>>>>>> unlodable packages reside in their own repositories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steps 2..4 are done repeatedly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is this what you mean?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes. Perhaps with a nicer name than
>>>>>>> #loadAllPackagesThatUnloadAllKnownPackagesUsedToUnload. Maybe
>>>>>>> #loadBasicPackages or something.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My main aim is to invert the approach we've had up until now, and
>>>>>>> _enforce_ the clean separation of these packages from the Core. I want
>>>>>>> it to be difficult to add a dependency from the Core to these
>>>>>>> packages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> frank
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Hannes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/13/13, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 13 February 2013 11:22, David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 05:28:26PM +0000, H. Hirzel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Yanni,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think St??phane refers to the original Pharo manifesto which
>>>>>>>>>>> clearly
>>>>>>>>>>> states "no backward compatibility".
>>>>>>>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> However the current Pharo web page has a mission statement
>>>>>>>>>>>    http://www.pharo-project.org/about
>>>>>>>>>>> sets a much more moderate tone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In any case in this thread we want to move on towards a Squeak
>>>>>>>>>>> core
>>>>>>>>>>> and learn from the Pharo experience as much as possible. Please
>>>>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> not digress from this important topic.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe we should follow both at the same time
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Let me call it
>>>>>>>>>>> - the Pavel Krivanek approach and
>>>>>>>>>>> - the
>>>>>>>>>>>      SmalltalkImage unloadAllKnownPackages
>>>>>>>>>>>   approach
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW
>>>>>>>>>>> #unloadAllKnownPackages
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> used to work in Squeak 4.1, see
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-August/152427.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So there is no reason why we should not manage to get it working
>>>>>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>>>>>> in Squeak 4.5alpha.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And Pavel's approach may be followed in parallel. Because fixing
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> thing will help the other and vice-verse.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Exactly so. That is what I intended when I mentioned
>>>>>>>>>> #unloadAllKnownPackages.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for stating it so clearly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While we're being clear about what's clear :) I'm wanting to _lose_
>>>>>>>>> #unloadAllKnownPackages, and replace it with a
>>>>>>>>> #loadAllPackagesThatUnloadAllKnownPackagesUsedToUnload, and add a
>>>>>>>>> bunch of new jobs running those unloaded packages' test suites.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That way, the thing called Squeak4.5-nnnn.image still contains what
>>>>>>>>> Squeak4.5-${whatever_current_is}.image, only the essence of trunk -
>>>>>>>>> what SqueakTrunk produces - shrinks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>