On 2013-05-23, at 21:35, Chris Muller <asqueaker at gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Bert, could you please explain why you want this?
> >
> > Cmd-0 is supposed to make something into plain text. Colored text is not plain text.
> 
> Look at the consecutive key-sequence across the top-row of the keyboard.  In order from left-to-right we have:
> 
>   Command+7 = Bold, no color change
>   Command+8 = Italicize, no color change
>   Command+9 = Kern, no color change
>   Command+0 = Normalize, PLUS a color change!
>   Command+_ = Underline, no color change
>   Command+= = Strikeout, no color change.

Now you're being ridiculous:

Command+6 = Color, no underline change
Command+7 = Bold, no underline change
Command+8 = Italicize, no underline change
Command+9 = Kern, no underline change
Command+0 = Normalize, PLUS an underline change!
Command+_ = Underline change
Command+= = Strikeout, no underline change

Outrageous ;)

> I think Command+6 should be the universal, one-stop, "Text Colorization" / "Decolorization" function and leave the rest of it elegantly consistent by operating solely on emphasis attributes.
> 
> The new Cmd+0 affects the gesture-usage of the system too.  Before, all combinations of going from any format+color to any another other format+color utilized a consistent sequence of gestures.  Now, we have an exceptional case for removing emphasis from colored text (e.g., going from Bold+Red to Normal+Red).

You seem to think of color as something special. I don't. It's just another way to make text fancy, instead of plain. Cmd-0 is intended to make text plain.

> Question:  How will users keep the same custom-color when all they want to do is remove an underline?  

Just like you do it in all other text editors: toggle underlining on and off: hit "Cmd _" twice.

> This use-case is now very difficult for the user if not impossible.

Huh?

> >> It's already so easy to switch text color to black:   Command+6 + Enter.
> >
> > Sure, but I don't normally want to set the text to black. I want to make it plain.
> 
> Ok, how about adding "default color" to the Alt+6 menu then?  Or, how about an alternate key-sequence for "Normalize + Decolorize"?  Shift+Command+0 is available!  This would be perfect compromise.

No. A more special operation should have a more complicated shortcut. "Remove all embellishments" is more general than "remove all embellishments but preserve colorization", so if you really need that special mode, that could be your new shortcut. 

> >> Isn't that easy enough without making it impossible for folks writing
> >> documents in Squeak that contain colored text?
> >
> > Don't use Cmd-0 if you want to use text containing different colors. It's *supposed* to make the whole selection look uniform.
> 
> But what do I use now if want to maintain different colors but just want to remove emphasis?  To do that before, it was the same consistent gesture-sequence as anything else.  Command+0, Command+6, Enter.  Done.  Now that's broken, especially for custom-colors.

But then you would need many more command sequences:

a) remove all text attributes except color
b) remove all text attributes except underlines/strikethrough
c) remove all text attributes except bold/italic
... etc ...

This is obviously ridiculous. I just don't see why you think text color is so special that it needs to be treated completely differently than all the other text attributes.

> > For a differently-colored background plain text should be displayed in color possibly different from black, I agree. But that color should *not* be encoded in the text itself, it should be a property of its display container, the one providing the background color.
> 
> I'm on-board with having a "nil" color as a text that causes it to render in whatever it's container says it should and having a gesture to set it such.  Glad we agree about that.
> 
> Would you please compromise with me -- it seems the shift key is used as an "enhanced" version of several hot-key functions throughout the system, and so Shift+Command+0 to inject the decolorization and leaving original Command+0 to remain consistent with [7] thru [=] to only remove emphasis, seems ideal, what do you think?

As I tried to explained above the only consistent way is for CMD-0 to remove all these text attribute. You're welcome to add "remove-all-but-color" as a special operation. I have *never* needed that, but I always was annoyed when I wanted to remove style, e.g. because a class comment was saved as all-red. 

Seriously, I don't even understand how you could think this is controversial. Removing all text attributes *obviously* should remove text colors.

- Bert -

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