Giving this thread a proper subject (and one further comment below).

On 2013-05-24, at 11:43, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de> wrote:

> On 2013-05-23, at 21:35, Chris Muller <asqueaker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> >> Bert, could you please explain why you want this?
>> >
>> > Cmd-0 is supposed to make something into plain text. Colored text is not plain text.
>> 
>> Look at the consecutive key-sequence across the top-row of the keyboard.  In order from left-to-right we have:
>> 
>>   Command+7 = Bold, no color change
>>   Command+8 = Italicize, no color change
>>   Command+9 = Kern, no color change
>>   Command+0 = Normalize, PLUS a color change!
>>   Command+_ = Underline, no color change
>>   Command+= = Strikeout, no color change.
> 
> Now you're being ridiculous:
> 
> Command+6 = Color, no underline change
> Command+7 = Bold, no underline change
> Command+8 = Italicize, no underline change
> Command+9 = Kern, no underline change
> Command+0 = Normalize, PLUS an underline change!
> Command+_ = Underline change
> Command+= = Strikeout, no underline change
> 
> Outrageous ;)
> 
>> I think Command+6 should be the universal, one-stop, "Text Colorization" / "Decolorization" function and leave the rest of it elegantly consistent by operating solely on emphasis attributes.
>> 
>> The new Cmd+0 affects the gesture-usage of the system too.  Before, all combinations of going from any format+color to any another other format+color utilized a consistent sequence of gestures.  Now, we have an exceptional case for removing emphasis from colored text (e.g., going from Bold+Red to Normal+Red).
> 
> You seem to think of color as something special. I don't. It's just another way to make text fancy, instead of plain. Cmd-0 is intended to make text plain.
> 
>> Question:  How will users keep the same custom-color when all they want to do is remove an underline?  
> 
> Just like you do it in all other text editors: toggle underlining on and off: hit "Cmd _" twice.
> 
>> This use-case is now very difficult for the user if not impossible.
> 
> Huh?
> 
>> >> It's already so easy to switch text color to black:   Command+6 + Enter.
>> >
>> > Sure, but I don't normally want to set the text to black. I want to make it plain.
>> 
>> Ok, how about adding "default color" to the Alt+6 menu then?  Or, how about an alternate key-sequence for "Normalize + Decolorize"?  Shift+Command+0 is available!  This would be perfect compromise.
> 
> No. A more special operation should have a more complicated shortcut. "Remove all embellishments" is more general than "remove all embellishments but preserve colorization", so if you really need that special mode, that could be your new shortcut. 
> 
>> >> Isn't that easy enough without making it impossible for folks writing
>> >> documents in Squeak that contain colored text?
>> >
>> > Don't use Cmd-0 if you want to use text containing different colors. It's *supposed* to make the whole selection look uniform.
>> 
>> But what do I use now if want to maintain different colors but just want to remove emphasis?  To do that before, it was the same consistent gesture-sequence as anything else.  Command+0, Command+6, Enter.  Done.  Now that's broken, especially for custom-colors.
> 
> But then you would need many more command sequences:
> 
> a) remove all text attributes except color
> b) remove all text attributes except underlines/strikethrough
> c) remove all text attributes except bold/italic
> ... etc ...
> 
> This is obviously ridiculous. I just don't see why you think text color is so special that it needs to be treated completely differently than all the other text attributes.
> 
>> > For a differently-colored background plain text should be displayed in color possibly different from black, I agree. But that color should *not* be encoded in the text itself, it should be a property of its display container, the one providing the background color.
>> 
>> I'm on-board with having a "nil" color as a text that causes it to render in whatever it's container says it should and having a gesture to set it such.  Glad we agree about that.
>> 
>> Would you please compromise with me -- it seems the shift key is used as an "enhanced" version of several hot-key functions throughout the system, and so Shift+Command+0 to inject the decolorization and leaving original Command+0 to remain consistent with [7] thru [=] to only remove emphasis, seems ideal, what do you think?
> 
> As I tried to explained above the only consistent way is for CMD-0 to remove all these text attribute. You're welcome to add "remove-all-but-color" as a special operation. I have *never* needed that, but I always was annoyed when I wanted to remove style, e.g. because a class comment was saved as all-red. 
> 
> Seriously, I don't even understand how you could think this is controversial. Removing all text attributes *obviously* should remove text colors.
> 
> - Bert -


Also, Chris, please read the command-key help, which explicitly states that Cmd-0 is intended to reset all Cmd-6 properties. I merely fixed a bug. It is unfortunate that you learned to rely on the buggy behavior. But I'm sure you're a great learner :)

- Bert -
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/attachments/20130524/658282e6/attachment.htm