[squeak-dev] SqueakTrunk image on build.squeak.org broken?

Frank Shearar frank.shearar at gmail.com
Tue Oct 29 15:08:32 UTC 2013


Hi Pavel,

Thanks for that! I'll definitely dig into this.

frank

On 29 October 2013 11:11, Pavel Krivanek <squeak1 at continentalbrno.cz> wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
> spending few minutes on it, I was able to produce very very dirty
> image (4.6MB). I did only  few small changes. Use patch002.st, I
> attach patch001.st only for diff purposes. I only tried to make it
> work somehow and made the resultant image responsive.
> I was not able to recompile all the classes so I simply used ifError:
> statement so many of methods is still not recompiled. That's one
> reason why the resultant image is so dirty. The script works on my
> Linux machine, no clue what will it do on Mac or Win.
> You should look at the patch002.st, compare patched methods with
> recent versions. Maybe some currently do not need any change. The
> patch does not provide good or final solutions, it only shows the most
> creaking places.
>
> I can help but you should understand that for me it's time I steal
> from Pharo that has much higher priority for me. I do not understand
> what Squeak is now and what it wants to be and I do not know last
> changes in it.
>
> -- Pavel
>
> 2013/10/29 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com>:
>> I know, Pavel.
>>
>> If you want to see Squeak shrink faster, and finally catch up with
>> your sterling work from ages ago, please take the image in
>> http://build.squeak.org/job/SqueakTrunk/573/artifact/*zip*/archive.zip
>> and see if I haven't broken anything. In particular, poke around the
>> Parser, because Nicolas and I saw some problems in the update stream a
>> while ago concerning Parser.
>>
>> Because one of the most serious non-technical problems that Squeak has
>> is lack of people.
>>
>> frank
>>
>> On 29 October 2013 08:42, Pavel Krivanek <squeak1 at continentalbrno.cz> wrote:
>>> Hi Nicolas,
>>>
>>> for Squeak we were able to shrink the system to a small kernel and
>>> reload and initialize the Morphic back long ago. In 2006. Two years
>>> before Pharo started to exist. The reason why Pharo can do it now and
>>> Squeak not is not technical.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -- Pavel
>>>
>>> 2013/10/25 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice at gmail.com>:
>>>> The problems you are going to face are:
>>>> 1) you need a good package delimitation, with clear contracts (on which
>>>> package/API do I depend?) both in the Squeak image (to save the package that
>>>> you want to see reloaded) and in Pharo
>>>> 2) the package delimitation has to be in good agreement, because the MC
>>>> tools do not deal with package refactoring
>>>> 3) since API are not in agreement, you gonna need plenty of glue for working
>>>> around changes like trimBoth, includesSubstring: etc...
>>>>
>>>> What are your goals exactly?
>>>>
>>>> A) you want to build on top of smaller kernel?
>>>> Then once you have 1), why should you go into Pharo rather than building on
>>>> top of your Squeak kernel?
>>>>
>>>> B) you want to profit by clean-ups and refactorings and shiny new
>>>> architecture made in Pharo?
>>>> Then yes, porting some interesting Squeak bits to Pharo has some value.
>>>> But that means you spend a lot of efforts for maintaining those bits alive.
>>>> That means switching from old file system to new one, switching from old
>>>> text system to (yet future) new one, switching to Spec, switching to
>>>> Settings, Announcements etc...
>>>>
>>>> C) You have no specific goals, just want to follow the momentum, but keep
>>>> your confortable Squeak slippers?
>>>> If you end up with hacks for loading all the old Squeak mud, then you'll end
>>>> up with Squeak, just a different Squeak, and unless you enjoy jumping many
>>>> hurdles, I don't see the point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/10/25 Edgar De Cleene <edgardec2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> De: Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice at gmail.com>
>>>>> Responder a: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>>>>> <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>>>>> Fecha: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:06:43 +0200
>>>>> Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>>>>> <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>>>>> Asunto: Re: [squeak-dev] SqueakTrunk image on build.squeak.org broken?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, Pharo is doing a great work of simplification.
>>>>> On the other hand, it deliberately has zero requirements to make removed
>>>>> parts reloadable, so the task is a bit easier...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Still exploring and understanding his system, but reporting
>>>>> ReferenceStream to Pharo 2.0 and having DependencyBrowser of Squeak working
>>>>> on it, a long time work could be put our view of Morphic on top of his
>>>>> kernel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or Cuis Morph hierarchy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Edgar
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>


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