Hi Igor and all!

On 02/10/2014 11:56 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
[SNIP]
>         Just to give you +1 on the Smalltalk family part. I mean, hell,
>         we even share the VM!
>
>         And I am not sure people understand how important this has been
>         for us Squeak/Pharooners, AFAIK a LOT of the work from Eliot has
>         been done through Newspeakish money, right?
>
>
>     Yes.  I've worked for Cadence twice.  Once in 2007 to 2008 where I
>     first worked on the Squeak interpreter and added immutability.  Form
>     there, now familiar with VMMaker I went to Qwaq and got to create
>     Cog.  I'm now back at Cadence and able to continue to work on Cog.
>       In particular, Spur has only been possible because of my boss at
>     Cadence, Yaron Kashai.  At Cadence we're using Newspeak to implement
>     systems for SoaC integration.  Without Newspeak there would be no
>     Spur.  WIthout Newspeak the Cog VM would not be nearly as developed
>     or reliable.
>
>     I don't want to stoke the flames but I do hope that the community
>     will consider Newspeak as part of the Smalltalk family.  It is
>     definitely a blood relative.  Don't treat it like a black sheep.
>
>
> I am not arguing whether Newspeak belongs to smalltalk family or not
> (clearly it is).
> The point is that 'S' letter in ESUG stands for Smalltalk, not Newspeak.
> (else we should be naming it properly - ENUG).
> So, the question is whether any non-smalltalk project is eligible to run
> and compete (because there is limited number of slots) with smalltalk
> projects under ESUG umbrella?

Well, first of all I was actually *not* talking about that particular 
incident (whatever took place, I have no idea) - my mistake to not make 
that clear - I merely wanted to note that we should stick together as a 
family *in general*. Gilad should really feel that IMHO.

Nevertheless just like Dennis noted - Pharo doesn't start with an "S" - 
hell, it even uses the phrase "Smalltalk inspired" to distance itself 
and make clear that hey, this is not a Smalltalk!

And Pharo has Traits so is it "Smalltalk"? :) Amber doesn't even have 
globals (!) so is Amber "a Smalltalk"?

And the fact that Newspeak actually *shares the VM* with Pharo and 
Squeak - that indicates a pretty strong connection, don't you think? 
Much stronger than Amber many would argue... And oh, Amber actually 
*claims* to be a Smalltalk ;) On the other hand it wants to be 
compatible with Pharo which claims to be only "inspired"... oh, darnit!

Just kidding (well, 50% serious perhaps) Igor, I get what you mean, just 
getting a bit philosophical here, I haven't had my morning coffee... :)

> If ESUG would take such road, i bet soon you will find many angry mentors,
> who was outvoted/outnumbered by "cool" PHP-MySql web projects.

Hehe, ok, PHP is NOT a Smalltalk. ;)

regards, Göran

PS. I am hacking on protobuf in Pharo 3.0 and noticed cool NB assembler 
in some places - are such methods creeping into base libraries now? What 
does that mean for other CPUs? Sorry, for changing subject - feel free 
to reply under different subject.