On 01/22/2014 03:51 PM, gettimothy wrote:
> I am not a Seaside expert--and I am activelly trying to move away from
> web-development.
>
> If I may throw out a bit of advocacy here.
>
> I used to made my living doing "middleware" work in web development ( I
> still do some freelance PHP work to pay the bills).
> My specialty is getting data from the database to the web page for the
> designers to use, back through the business layer and to the database.
>
> I have used PHP and its frameworks:  Zend, CodeIgniter, Java and its
> frameworks (which are pretty good) and the Microsoft stack (which I hate)
> By far the easiest to use for complex applications in that "middleware"
> stack is Seaside components. All you do is get a robust definition of what
> the use-case is and the application pretty much writes itself.
> Development time and maintenance are greatly reduced.
>
> I do see the trend towards Javascript by the young-uns out there--most
> developers do think in  Algol afterall--which is fine, but it is really
> repeating the 70's all over again.
> It get's boring--same coding style, same frameworks to manage the
> short-comings..just blah.

I am sounding like a broken record but:

http://www.amber-lang.net

As Colin has already said - writing a HTML5 app in Amber is very, very 
similar to how you write a Seaside app. You have proper components that 
can nest etc. You have a canvas that looks and behaves very much like in 
Seaside - although it actually operates directly on the DOM.

And Amber is Smalltalk. You have browser, workspace, inspectors and even 
a debugger. But its not an interpreter - its a full compiling Smalltalk.

Best way to see this if you have 2 minutes:

1. Go to www.smalltalkhub.com using Chrome.
2. Press ctrl-shift-j to get Javascript console.
3. Write "smalltalk.Browser._open();" and execute that.
4. Close javascript console and enjoy the Amber IDE (the old one though, 
the new Helios IDE is much slicker).
5. Click on the "Hub-Amber-Widgets-Users" package in the left side list.
6. Find ShLoginWidget class, look at the code.

...and yes, you can edit the method, save it, and see the effect 
immediately in the app! Just like Smalltalk.

regards, Göran

PS. You can use javascript libraries relatively transparently from 
Amber, no glue needed. As you may see jQuery is used in the Amber IDE 
without a single line of glue code.