[squeak-dev] [Pharo-users] Personal Programming onPharo

H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel at gmail.com
Thu May 10 10:38:42 UTC 2018


Hello Trygve

I am interested in an updated zip file of

     http://fulloo.info/Downloads/BabyIDE.zip     (Squeak 3.10)

Includes Squeak BabyIDE image and Win7-VM.

As you write a new Squeak version will come later.

--Hannes

On 5/10/18, Trygve Reenskaug <trygver at ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> Hi Hannes,
> It's great that you consider spending time on BabyIDE. Porting BabyIDE
> to Pharo needs to be done sooner or later, but it may be harder to find
> somebody who will actually use the results.(BabyIDE was first released
> 10 years ago. AFAIK I am still the only user of the ST version.)
>
> A plan for creating an alpha version of PP could be
>
>  1. Establish a project with funding and people (including project
>     manager and lead programmer).
>  2. Use present BabyIDE to create a new and clean Squeak version with
>     DCI architecture.
>  3. Port new BabyIDE to Pharo.
>  4. ...
>
> We will then have a platform that extends Pharo with the new
> programming  paradigm for programming system behavior (use cases). This
> will be a valuable addition to Pharo as a tool for professional
> programmers. We will also have a platform for building an alpha version
> of PP.
>
> /But before I do anything else, I have to finish my PP documentation on
> my home page
> http://folk.uio.no/trygver/
>   ./
>
> More about DCI at
> http://fulloo.info
> http://fulloo.info/Examples/SqueakExamples/index.html    Includes code
> for examples
> http://fulloo.info/Downloads/BabyIDE.zip     Includes Squeak BabyIDE
> image and Win7-VM.
>                    I'll update the ZIP if anybody is interested in
> actually running BabyIDE
> --Trygve
>
>
>
>
> On 08.05.2018 20:06, H. Hirzel wrote:
>> On 5/6/18, Trygve Reenskaug<trygver at ifi.uio.no>  wrote:
>>> I'm working on a programing paradigm and IDE for the personal programmer
>>> who wants to control his or her IoT. The size of the target audience I
>>> have in mind is >100 million. I gave up Squeak long ago as a platform
>>> because they obsolete my code faster than I can write it.  I have now
>>> frozen Squeak 3.10.2 and hope its runtime will survive until I find a
>>> better foundation. My hope is that Pharo has a stable kernel that I can
>>> build on.
>> Hello Tryge
>>
>> Good to see that you reconsider to use Smalltalk in 2018, this time
>> Pharo.
>>
>> Am I assuming correctly that you want to continue to work on your IDE
>> which the supports the DCI (Data-Context-Interaction) programming
>> style [1]? The IDE was called "BabyIDE" [2].
>>
>> In 2015 you wrote to the Squeak mailing  list that you are abandoning
>> Squeak (Squeak 3.8, 4.5 or 4.6 at that time and Smalltalk as a whole)
>> in favour of JavaScript, a mainstream language. That you now at least
>> reconsider to use Smalltalk (Pharo) is an interesting result as it
>> reinforces the idea that doing things the Smalltalk way is more
>> promising than going for JavaScript directly [6].
>>
>> As for loading the BabyIDE into Squeak: It is noteworthy that after 10
>> years (done around Squeak version 3.8) of maintaining a fork the
>> Squeakland (Etoys) image has been merged back into Squeak 6.0a trunk.
>> [5]
>>
>> I could actually load some of your tools last year into Squeak 6.0a
>> with very modest fixes last year. [2].
>>
>> It seems that splitting your IDE enhancements into different parts
>> which can be treated independently will probably help.
>>
>> And in addition helpful would be  IMHO to write HOW you construct
>> these tools and WHY you do it. These will help people to maintain your
>> code even if the underlying system changes.
>>
>> It seems worthwhile to try out how it goes with the most recent Squeak
>> version, Squeak 6.0a trunk [8].
>>
>> Another option is to wait a few months and look for the bootstrap
>> version of Pharo 7.
>> All the code is in readable format on github and various types of
>> image files may be built  build from it [7].
>>
>> And the third option is to check out if Cuis (the third Smalltalk
>> which runs on the OpenSmalltalk [3] VM) suits your needs. [4]
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Hannes Hirzel
>>
>>
>> -------------------
>>
>> [1] Data-Context-Interactionhttp://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6048
>> [2] BabySREhttp://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2550
>> [3]http://www.opensmalltalk.org/
>> [4] Cuis Smalltalk
>> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev  ; there is a Cuis
>> mailing list.
>> [5] Etoys in 2017http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6531
>> [6] Of course these days JavaScript cannot be avoided. But it is
>> preferable to generate it with a Smalltalk tool.
>> [7] The file format used in Pharo 7 is called Tonel (no exclamation
>> marks!)
>> [8] Squeak 6.0a trunk downloadhttp://files.squeak.org/6.0alpha/
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> /The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborateto achieve
> a goal. /
> Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver at ifi.uio.no <mailto:%20trygver at ifi.uio.no>
> Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/
> N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info
> Norway                     Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27
>
>


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