[squeak-dev] Open Croquet will ahve issues in next version of Mac OS X

Bruce O'Neel bruce.oneel at pckswarms.ch
Tue Oct 23 00:49:50 UTC 2018


Hi,  
  
For what it's worth the dynamic libraries in  /System/Library/Frameworks/[OpenGL.framework/Libraries/*](http://OpenGL.framework/Libraries/*) are all both 32 and 64 bit.  So that means that one could write a 64 bit OpenGL plugin etc and use it from a 64 bit Squeak.  
  
All Apple has said is "OpenGL is depreciated."  They have been very closed mouth about when it will be removed.  One guesses that the next version after Mojave will not have the 32 bit libraries regardless of OpenGL or not.    
  
If I would bet they will not remove OpenGL but they will get increasingly strident with the warning messages in Xcode etc, and, eventually give a pop-up like we've been getting for 32 bit apps.  I'm betting that new App Store approvals won't happen with OpenGL but we don't care about that.  
  
cheers  
  
bruce  
  
  
  

> Well, the OpenGL plugin itself isn’t 64-bit last I checked, and I’m not sure what else. Croquet/Cobalt may auto-install stuff that I never noticed.   
>   
>  There’s also an issue with Croquet/Cobalt only working properly because every vlirny generates exactly the same (bit-identical) values in every possible respect.   
>   
>  Integer handling  (and 32-bit floating point) in 32-bit vs 64-bit squeak may break that. It may be possible to create “proxy” classes for integers and floats and use those in both 32-bit and 64-bit Croquet, and allow the objects on the client-side resolve any oddness, but as it stands now, my understanding is that a SmallInteger on a 32-bit VM isn't the same as a SmallInteger on a 64-bit VM and that is an automatic fail for the paradigm that Croquet is based on, so simply updating Croquet to 64-bit will automatically make it incompatible with 32-bit Croquet.   
>   
>  Which kinda defeats the original "deploy everywhere that Squeak works” philosophy.   
>   
>   
>  L   
>   
>  > On Oct 22, 2018, at 4:36 PM, David T. Lewis  wrote:   
>  >   
>  > Hi Lawson,   
>  >   
>  > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 01:24:16PM -0700, LawsonEnglish wrote:   
>  >> https://blog.krestianstvo.org/en/open-croquet-for-squeak-6/   
>  >>   
>  >>   
>  >> This sounds really cool, but there???s an issue coming up:   
>  >>   
>  >> Apple is doing away with ANY support for 32-bit apps and plugins and of course, Croquet is built for 32-bits and uses 32-bit plugins all over the place.   
>  >>   
>  >   
>  > We collectively have a good deal of experience in updating plugins   
>  > for 64 bits, and of course the VMs (the "application") are already   
>  > there. Can you remind us what plugins are needed for Croquet that are   
>  > not already in the supported VMs?   
>  >   
>  > Thanks,   
>  > Dave   
>  >   
>  >   
>  >   
>  >>   
>  >>   
>  >> Croquet could STILL be the killer-app for Smalltalk even though it never realized its potential in the past, and it won???t be able to if something isn???t done about the looming 32-bit vs 64-bit issue.   
>  >>   
>  >> Need I point out that it should work on Pharo just the same way it does on Squeak?   
>  >>   
>  >> L   
>  >>   
>  >   
>  >
  

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