Am Mo., 30. Dez. 2019 um 02:01 Uhr schrieb Chris Muller <asqueaker at gmail.com
>:

>
> Squeak's IDE should present that it understands core competencies of
> development, and LEAD users by not offering haphazard ways to do
> configuration management, e.g., "Save as...".  Ultimately it's a path to
> nowhere, possibly even pain, and yet exacts a significant and mandatory
> cost to the IDE's consistency, usability and scope.
>

I cannot make up a coherent image of this in my mind. In one message you
say that other users' workflows should not be obstructed, and now, as I
understand you, you say that the IDE should prescribe a certain way of
working which does not include forking images. I have seen people who like
to do that. I myself am even stranger and would sometimes like to fork
things inside a single image, which is one reason why I am so interested in
Environments. Then you might tell me that it were not "best and proven
practice" to put so much stuff in one image and that I had fallen for some
"haphazard way to do configuration management". I could reply that filing
out code in pieces with auto-generated file names is a "haphazard way to do
configuration management", too, and that those file out menu items only
take up valuable space. Use proper version control facilities, which is
proven practice in the rest of the software engineering world... Yet some
people like filing out, as we have just seen in this thread, and I don't
think we will drop this capability any time soon. So instead I might be
better off replying that the Save As functionality and the save dialogs
involved in it are simply not "a significant and mandatory cost to the
IDE's consistency, usability and scope", but rather a basic functionality
like filing out that some people expect from the system.


> Being able to work in the Smalltalk sandbox is why we're all here, and not
> in a C# group.  We should provide the tools that users deal with the
> outside world like a boss.
>

We can proclaim and wish for all the tools we want, but ultimately our
resources (manpower) are limited and we won't get all the great tools we
want in the short term. To have everything written and inspectable in
Smalltalk is nice, but only if requiring that does not keep you distracted
from solving actual problems. Example: While there are dozens of text
merging tools out there for each major platform, no acceptable such
equivalent thing for the merging of methods has been implemented or rather
adopted in the Squeak trunk yet. In the end it might have been more
productive to call such other application to do the merging and read the
results back into the image, as an intermediary solution.

I vote for solving the unnecessary efficiency problem of the current file
dialogs and then stick with them. Until some messiah submits the
implementation (!) of the "one and only" way to do proper software
engineering with Squeak, which is unanimously accepted as the true
revelation by everyone...

Am Mo., 30. Dez. 2019 um 02:01 Uhr schrieb Chris Muller <asqueaker at gmail.com
>:

> At the risk of side-tracking the thread: I'm curious, what is so insane
>> about dealing with directory listings in Windows 10?
>>
>>
> It already got side-tracked from the original topic of IDE design, which
> was my fault for bringing up the secondary topic of performance.  It's
> okay, we did cover the primary issue which is usability of the modal popup
> design.  I actually love Subbu's angle of thinking about it, and our system
> could do it.  THAT is what we should do (or something like it, we're up to
> three proposals now).
>
> Squeak's IDE should present that it understands core competencies of
> development, and LEAD users by not offering haphazard ways to do
> configuration management, e.g., "Save as...".  Ultimately it's a path to
> nowhere, possibly even pain, and yet exacts a significant and mandatory
> cost to the IDE's consistency, usability and scope.
>
> Being able to work in the Smalltalk sandbox is why we're all here, and not
> in a C# group.  We should provide the tools that users deal with the
> outside world like a boss.
>
> Best,
>   Chris
>
>
>
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